Lt. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 165
# 1 Picard would NOT approve!
11-19-2012, 05:24 AM
I was in a mild shock yesterday, after I beamed down to New Romulus and spoke to Valoth...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valoth
Since the destruction of the Romulan homeworld, Romulan space has been unstable. The Federation tried to offer a hand in friendship, to build connections with the survivors. When that failed, Starfleet Command made the decision to take several pre-emptive strikes to eliminate threats before they could become open warfare.

Now first of all... we are talking about refugees from the Romulan homeworld. Groups of survivors trying to rebuild their lives and society. Starfleet approaches them, offering to help.... Starfleet... their sworn enemy! That they have been taught from the cradle are the most vile and untrustworthy creatures in the universe... Would YOU expect them to accept "help"?

So they refuse. And WHAT does Starfleet do? Against fleeing refugees? Preemptive strikes!!! To stop the Romulan refugees from rebuilding their society like they want!

This is actually making me cringe... I feel sick to my stomach! What RIGHT does Starfleet have to dictate the Romulan society? What gives them the right to used armed force against refugees? This is the most un-starfleet dialogue box I've EVER seen!!! To sum it up, Starfleet is:
- Taking side in an internal conflict.
- Trying to control the development of an alien society.
- Using armed force against civilians and refugees.

And if this wasn't enough...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valoth
Whether or not these actions were justified is not for us to debate.
Questioning your orders is NOT ok??? As long as we follow orders we are not responsible? Really? Starfleet Captains hiding behing a Nuremberg defense? This makes me sick!

Quote:
Originally Posted by London Charter of the International Military Tribunal (1945)
The fact that a person acted pursuant to order of his Government or of a superior does not relieve him from responsibility under international law, provided a moral choice was in fact possible to him.
We KNOW from Star Trek that this principle applies. We have seen Starfleet Captains reject direct orders from superior officers on many occations, based on their belief that the order given was unethical or unlawful. It's not only a choise, it's the obligaion of all Starfleet personel!

But in STO, I'm expected to not only accept this atrocity, but also to aid in it's execution!

Picard...would not...approve...
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,125
# 2
11-19-2012, 05:34 AM
Starfleet is just trying to ensure a dictator doesn't come to power (Tal Shiar perhaps), they are moving their assets into Romulan space to help ensure the liberty of the Romulan people and in time help them on the road to democracy.
Man is a gaming animal. He must always be trying to get the better in something or other.
Warning, this poster tends to talk nonsensically when caffine levels fall below 80%.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,208
# 3
11-19-2012, 05:38 AM
Agreed, this is badly worded and thought out. A simple change would be:

"When the Tal Shiar tried to stop us rebuilding our homeworld Starfleet took action on our behalf, as refugees we had neither the manpower or the means to protect ourselves. It is through these actions that Starfleet was invited to New Romulus to help us rebuild our homeland. Let us hope that from tragedy and mistrust a new order and a new friendship can be built as well as a new homeworld"

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Career Officer
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 953
# 4
11-19-2012, 05:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by defalus View Post
Starfleet is just trying to ensure a dictator doesn't come to power (Tal Shiar perhaps), they are moving their assets into Romulan space to help ensure the liberty of the Romulan people and in time help them on the road to democracy.
Technically this is still against the Prime Directive. Only a recognized government with the support of it's people who requests for help to the Federation can be considered as a legitimate non-directive breaking situation.

Helping refugees is one thing but having a hand in rebuilding a Romulan Empire is not.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 165
# 5
11-19-2012, 05:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by defalus View Post
Starfleet is just trying to ensure a dictator doesn't come to power (Tal Shiar perhaps), they are moving their assets into Romulan space to help ensure the liberty of the Romulan people and in time help them on the road to democracy.
omg... you're just as bad as them...

Starfleet knows whats's best for these people, right? Starfleet has a right to force it's principals on others, yes? By any means, you would say? The Starfleet way is the only right way? Anyone who feels different is just displaying a need of being shot?

This is the exact opposite of everything Trek is supposed to be about. Accepting other species, cultures and ways of thinking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thisisoverlord View Post
Technically this is still against the Prime Directive. Only a recognized government with the support of it's people who requests for help to the Federation can be considered as a legitimate non-directive breaking situation.

Helping refugees is one thing but having a hand in rebuilding a Romulan Empire is not.
Exactly. By helping one, you may doom another. Starfleet has a policy of non-interference. It's there for a reason. Helping one faction in an internal struggle is unacceptable. If help/support is to be offered (like medi al supplies), it has to be offered equally to every faction.

Last edited by pvehero; 11-19-2012 at 05:47 AM.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,125
# 6
11-19-2012, 05:48 AM
The Federation is at war, if they didn't move into to Romulan space it would be wide open for the Klingon Empire to take. It's been shown several times before on TV how far Starfleet is willing to go, the ends justify the means.

Edit, I know the s7 backstory about the KDF-New Romulus has J'mpeck wanting to make the Romulans allies to fight the bigger threat, the Iconians but would the Federation accept that the Empire wouldn't attack the Romulans if they weren't there?
Man is a gaming animal. He must always be trying to get the better in something or other.
Warning, this poster tends to talk nonsensically when caffine levels fall below 80%.

Last edited by defalus; 11-19-2012 at 05:51 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,490
# 7
11-19-2012, 05:51 AM
Quote:
This is actually making me cringe... I feel sick to my stomach! What RIGHT does Starfleet have to dictate the Romulan society? What gives them the right to used armed force against refugees? This is the most un-starfleet dialogue box I've EVER seen!!! To sum it up, Starfleet is:
I completely agree. There have been numerous occasions on the show, where Starfleet didn't directly get involved into internal struggles of other species. Even if those had the chance to completely mess up the balance of power in the alpha quadrant and it involved some of their closest allies. (e.g not helping Gowron in the Klingon Civil War, even though his ship was attacked).

The Prime Directive didn't allow it.

If you look at what missions, storyline and doff assignments we get: the STO version of the Federation pretty much feels like the British Empire of the 1800's. Aggressive colonization (even in Klingon and Romulan space), deploying colonial troops (e.g. Caitians), exploiting local rescources whenever they can, ruthless killing of indigenous wildlife and local populace at the blink of an eye, getting involved in the local politics of every conquered and neighbouring species (bajoran, cardassian, klingon, romulan, deferi...) etc...

...hence why many of my ships carry British names. Wish we'd be able to get the HMS-prefix. Heck, even their security forces are redcoats.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,905
# 8
11-19-2012, 05:52 AM
Pvehero, Kirk made a career off interfereing off every planet they visited Sure some were for the best, but some were not

The Prime Directive's been violated a lot, and not just by him... at this point, it's one of those few-times-enforced laws that only some pay attention to. Sure Star Trek's message is what you said, but there is a lot of interfering by Starfleet as well.

And that was during more peaceful times. Imagine how much they loosened up when multiple wars are threatening them...
Was named Trek17, but still an author.

Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh'.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,937
# 9
11-19-2012, 05:52 AM
They are not attacking the refugees, they are attacking the Tal Shiar.

these are the established 'bad guys' of the game. perhaps a little black and white but these are the ones who are working with the iconians, slaughtering the reman people and leaving romulan people to fend for themselves while they go after their own goals.

it might be oversimplified for the purposes of a computer game, but these missions are the ones you have been playing since the game launched. the story eps where you attack romulan, the patrol missions in romulan space.

every time you attack a romulan in the game it is a representation of starfleet dealing with the 'bad guys' before they can hurt the federation or even the romulan people.

House of Cards - Lvl 46 Fed mission
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,426
# 10
11-19-2012, 06:11 AM
I agree with CaptainRevo.

What those preemptive strikes refer to are the missions you played previously during the Romulan Front.
Not in a single instance those strikes where against civilian refugees. On the contrary, there is a mission "Friend of my Enemy" where we do the exact opposite, and which can be seen as a precurser to New Romulus, and help a colony of Romulan refugees against a Reman induced bioweapon.


To see what the preemtive strikes are exactly,you should check the missions"Divide et Impera", "Preemptive Strike" (shocking, isn't it? ), "By Any Means", "Taris", "S'hariens Swords" and most of "Cloaked Intentions".

Some of those are legitimate, some are questionable or even regrettable. But Starfleet treats these as a "what's done is done" deal and tries it's best to correct those mistakes now with the help for an entirely new faction within the Empire, namely those civilian refugees.
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