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Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,502
# 31
11-24-2012, 09:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxottoman View Post
I like the ingenious responses and counters being offered for these tricobalts. However, their effectiveness is often shadowed by their damage. They're sudden struck bolts of lightning that destroy a team mate, thus weakening the counter measures to combat trics.

Did I say combat trics? Instead of combat players? Yup. LoL people would be more fetched on fighting tricobalts with a lot more emphasis on counter those than their opponents ability to say throw in virals? warp plasma of their own? gravity wells of their own? target engines? graviton pulse? LoL let's not all forget all the other fancy stuff the other guys can do too...
Your all on a bandwagon to nerf Tricobalt Mines. When up until the change to Dispersal Pattern Beta, Tricobalt Mines were not a threat. Take away Dispersal Pattern Beta, and they are still not a threat like they are now. The problem is NOT the Tricobalt Mines. The problem is when this happens..

Player A Equips Tricobalt Mines on his ship, then Activates a Dispersal Pattern Beta 1, 2, or 3 (3 being the worst culperate)
Player A then Deploys his 2,3 or 4 Tricobalt Mines all at once.

One of those Tricobalt Mines then not only hits, but CRITS..that means the remaining Tricobalt Mines will AUTOMATICALLY CRIT.

The usual counters still work vs Mines of any Kind:
Tractor Beam Repulsors
Beam Target Subsystem: Weapons
Phaser Proc vs Weapons
Eject Warp Plasma
Gravity Well
Tyken's Rift
Cannon: Scatter Volley
Torpedo: Spread
Beam: Fire At Will
Deploying your own Mines.
Deploying Pets
Photonic Fleet
Photonic Shockwave
Scramble Sensors
Anti-matter Spread
<Insert other Console that causes AOE effects>


Those above are your defenses/counters vs a single Tricobalt Mine. Even Multiples. It also helps to Identify which player(s) are using the actual Mine Pattern, and which ones are not. The ones with the Pattern are the MORE DANGEROUS Foe. And if the entire team is using them, then break out your counters.

If your in a Pug, and you witness this happening, Inform the pug what they should use. Let them know what is going on. Tell them how to counter the mines and they will slowly become less of a threat.

Continue on this parade to Nerf Tricobalt Mines how ever, and your just going to cause more agrovation because again, and finally, it is not the Mine that is the probelm, but the Coding around how objects and effects like it Critical Hit.
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Think about this:
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Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 363
# 32
11-24-2012, 12:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by webdeath View Post

One of those Tricobalt Mines then not only hits, but CRITS..that means the remaining Tricobalt Mines will AUTOMATICALLY CRIT.

The usual counters still work vs Mines of any Kind:
Tractor Beam Repulsors
Beam Target Subsystem: Weapons
Phaser Proc vs Weapons
Eject Warp Plasma
Gravity Well
Tyken's Rift
Cannon: Scatter Volley
Torpedo: Spread
Beam: Fire At Will
Deploying your own Mines.
Deploying Pets
Photonic Fleet
Photonic Shockwave
Scramble Sensors
Anti-matter Spread
<Insert other Console that causes AOE effects>

Right so, they either lose the dispersal pattern on tricobalts or they nerf the damage. One of the two.

I wouldn't really call it a bandwagon at this point, everyone wants this out of the way. Along with Power Siphons, SN Doffs and other stuff that's just outright messed up.

I mean like you're telling people to go around educate people. Do you know how many people signed a petition to have PvP fixed in this game?

Only 30.

Not only were people too lazy to tell others about it, but truly did not believe in getting together and having a voice on something.

So really, if you expect people to go around educating people, its really not going to happen. And don't get me wrong, InternationalPvP TS is always open to those that want to learn, but we've found it far and large difficult to teach the unwilling.

The items you listed work to an extent.

Here's what we've found out at TRH:
TBR: We used this. It's simply not enough.

Gravity Well is too localized - cool down time in junction with mines.

Tykens isn't a direct counter to the mines but to the mine layer, however he doesn't need power to lay mines.

Scatter volley - The mines have mask energy signature and are difficult to detect. Your scatter goes to waste if the mines are masked or behind you. You have sacrificed a lot of DPS to find mines, while they haven't.

Torp Spread - Same thing with scatter, also not a concentrated fire brand. You sacrifice DPS while your opponent doesn't.

FAW - Fires everywhere and misses about 40% of the time. And doesn't hit things that are masked. Beams going all over the place, no focus fire, you mind as well call it a 1hr+ tric mine fest because you can't focus fire.

Your own mines are often destroyed by AOE explosion from 1 of the mines, not a big solution but maybe a reduction. 1 Tric takes an entire teams network of mines.

Pets are often struck with the mines, but they do not solo absorb the hit. Your team mate will often try to avoid the mines, only to notice a set of them about to strike a set of Photonics/Pets, you're dead with the pets.

Scramble sensors - It is because of your fleet a lot of fleets spec'd out of scramble sensors. The constant bickering of Husanak and others on these forums while invited them to test the SS bug made people spec out of it and overall made it into a frowned ability. Not one Critz member came to test this bug since they reamed and ranted whenever TRH ran scrambles, not one. It's still broken according to a lot of people.

Anti Matter Spread - Also broken, evasive misfires when opposing team fires off an AMS.

Web, we've been trying this stuff on a regular basis. We're noticing that even if you were to teach it to a bunch of new people or pugs, they wouldn't be able to use it with ease like the bombers do. Also, what's stopping them from using all that stuff on you? Nothing. Here's the other understanding, due to the extreme damage from the mines, you are sacrificing a lot of heals to deal with the mines. Again, you're fighting/finding mines while your opponent is idle doing things more logistically while you're entrenched for most if not the entirety of the match.

I don't know why you would advocate the use of tric mines at their high damage rate, whilst Thales and the others from Critz would make it a standing rule not to use them. You don't like them, you know they're ridiculous, there's really no sense of adding fuel to the fire in terms of their lasting life line in PvP use. They're boring bombs dropped on people without effort or coordination, the average player will have no answer to it.

A versed premade vs another versed one would undermine the other with tric kills in junction with conventional ones simply because of the damage output and/or lack of heals being used to deal with them.

Either the dispersal goes, or their damage is reduced. That's all we want really.

Last edited by paxottoman; 11-24-2012 at 01:04 PM.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 197
# 33
11-24-2012, 01:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxottoman View Post
I mean like you're telling people to go around educate people. Do you know how many people signed a petition to have PvP fixed in this game?

Only 30.
Not exactly a fair number since they shut the thread down, didn't they?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 197
# 34
11-24-2012, 01:22 PM
Wait, I could of swore you ripped a guy from TSI for using scramble sensors saying they knew that it was broken. Can't find the thread, but the guy was flying a carrier and you called him out on using SS
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 197
# 35
11-24-2012, 01:24 PM
And the solution really is as simple as dc'ing tric's from DPB until they can fix the crit issues. Leave DPD in place to buff trics since its working the way it should. This way no one can really complain about tric's not having a tac ability that buffs them
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,764
# 36
11-24-2012, 01:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eisenw0lf View Post
Seperating Trics from Dispersal patterns would make them downright useless. A single tricobalt mine is so easily dealt with players would immediatly stop using mines again and it would be like half a year ago when only some newbies ever equipped mines on their ships.

But I have to agree regarding the crit issue. This also affects other weapons like the Plasma DoT which can be equally deadly to low-hullpoint ships.
Well the Devs could fix the DpB crit bug but the wait would only ruin Trics more from the nerfing instead of fixing......
Richard Hamilton (1975-2014)
goodbye good friend. We will see you in the DMZ in the sky oneday, save a shot for us.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,764
# 37
11-24-2012, 01:54 PM
And for the record, base Tricobalt mine damage has not been increased or buffed at all. They do the same range of damage as they alway have in the game, only the changes in Dispersal patterns have made mines more viable in combat.

If they nerf the damage they make the mine just as useless as before.
Richard Hamilton (1975-2014)
goodbye good friend. We will see you in the DMZ in the sky oneday, save a shot for us.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 432
# 38
11-24-2012, 02:52 PM
I like the craziness that Tricobalt mines add to the field. The problem I have is the way that all these other holds, disables, and various forms of spam make them almost impossible to avoid.

What really needs to happen is that Tricobalt Torpedoes and Mines be boosted back to the way they were over a year ago when they couldn't be buffed by torpedo and mine skills. Back then they were almost perfect.
__________________________________________
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It's terrible but easy, and these Borg are way cooler than the mess STO and Voyager left us.
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Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 50
# 39
11-25-2012, 11:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemepwe View Post
And for the record, base Tricobalt mine damage has not been increased or buffed at all. They do the same range of damage as they alway have in the game, only the changes in Dispersal patterns have made mines more viable in combat.

If they nerf the damage they make the mine just as useless as before.

True, However, its a problem when a tac buffs up with alpha/omega/gdf/tac fleet and DPB3 and drops the tric mines. they hit between 20-50k+ damage per hit with AOE damage. i've seen a single DPB3 from an escort wipe out a full team in 1 set of mines. Like torpedo spread, or high yield, damage per mine should be dropped to compensate for the already very high damage tric mines already do.

Nerf the damage % per mine for each additional tric mine added or take the mines off dispersal pattern.

@Minitrckin08 Turkish RP Heros
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 257
# 40
11-25-2012, 11:56 PM
I have always hated those mines op little bastards best thing I can see is warp out don't let the noobs that use them get their dilith

As far as the timeship console its like a miracle worker with a photonic officer 1 or a aux 2 bat doff basically it saves off 5 sec of your cool-down timers on your boff skills every 5 min don't see this being to op I kill time ships all the time

Now one time ship ability needing a fix is the inversion field! Ever run into 3 to 5 of those ships spamming this yea they need to have a immunity for as long as the cool down of it so it can only be used by one ship at a time! You can just get 5 km away from the ship so one doing it is not so bad
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