Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 127
# 11
11-25-2012, 10:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by vestereng View Post
I totally disagree.

I did go through the content rapidly and you know what, I kept playing stf anyway. Some days even over the limit.
The thing is, stf, includingly the kiddielies after having all my gear on all my characters, was my only dilithium in-come...

Now with the rewards gone I play a minimum for reputation marks only and I have zero dilithium coming in.

It might change when and if I unlock our old gear again but I doubt it - I already have everything, honestly depending on the prices I could see myself not buying a single item from the rep store and not play stf or go for romulan marks after I hit t5.

Simply go in-active, have my fleet unlock everything and maybe get 1 or 2 items before season 8.

The turning point being I was willing to farm stf for unlocks whereas now I am not.

So the supposed effect of prolonging my game time had the reversed effect, it totally killed it.
That's too bad. Seriously, I'm sad for you. I am genuinely sad that you feel the game has lost any other interest to you.

Me? I *like* doing the fleet actions (and S7 changes have encouraged me to try the ground fleet actions, which I'd never done before). I like now that my dilithium income isn't limited to STFs out the ass. I find the game more fun.

In the end? Some people are gonna like changes, some people are gonna dislike them. That's the way the cookie crumbles.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,404
# 12
11-25-2012, 11:01 AM
It's not that bad lol

What I am saying is, the reputation system is gear I have that now costs infintely more than it used to in addition to me having it already.
That and earning dil for fleet projects or c-store items or whatever just went out the window.
... which happend to be my main gameplay before.

I still play, just more afk than anything and I don't do missions.
Sell some stuff buy some contraband

And sure there is stuff I look forward to like getting some of the winter re-run items or seeing the romulan oufit on embassy t3.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 255
# 13
11-25-2012, 11:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by xantris View Post
You're forgetting item turn in conversions.

960x8= 7680
8 (BNP) x 200= 1600
480 (omega marks, 60 per eSTF) x 10 = 4800

So really, 8 STFs = 14080 dilithium potential

It's actually more than that assuming you get optionals( ~1200 dilithium), and that's not even counting the drops they are adding back in.

So, yeh, your still hitting dil cap in approx 4 STFs, which takes about an hour. It's pretty forgiving.
That is not valid "bright side" math considering we NEED those omega marks and BNPs to purchase drops for some time AFTER we reach tier 5, and that's assuming not a single soul spends them before then except marks for the rep system.

It is true, though, that eventually we will be in that position. The question is will it be worth it. Well, yes it will be because it will still be the best, quickest method. However, I don't know how you figure 4 STFS as the max we'll get is 1660 dil per STF. Are they still doing wed/thur extra rewards? Since when will there be 1200 dil for opt wins that you mentioned? Is it always going to be 1200 dil for every opt win no matter the day and I missed that part from his mouth? Even at 1200 for opt wins that's just an extra 240 dil per STF. In any case the bare min will be 5 STFs. Then you have to figure the typical time it takes for STFs outside the realm of uber i.e. public cues that are a 1 in 4 chance of being great runs. It's going to take longer than 1 hour to reach 8k dil.


I liked the way things were because I could do STFS for a few hours each day, get enough dilithium to last like 3 refinement days, and never have to ever touch another tiring dilithium quest. That's gone now. I wouldn't exactly call it a forgiving system. More like a "**** you" system for never needing to purchase dilithium because I was a hardcore gamer and not a casual gamer. So I suppose you can be happy with the compromise if you wish. Frankly I think that's what Cryptic wanted all along. I seriously think they got less of a black eye going with the way they did than if they had just out right cut the dil earnings because they saw how we reacted every time they would nerf dilithium somewhere in preparations for season 6 and 7. By taking it all away from STFs and then giving it back at a reduced rate it allowed them to get away with it judging by how so many people are now happy with the so called compromise. It's a masterful plan if true. I need to remember it if I ever find myself in the shoes of Dan at some other MMO in the future. If it wasn't planned out they'd do well to remember what happened and use it to their advantage in the future.

Their ultimate plan was for hardcore players to have less dilithium. Doesn't matter much what went down or how. It's obvious that was their goal. It's made more obvious than ever when they explain they want more players with dilithium in their bank accounts but go ahead and nerf FAs by 66% regardless because STFs got their dil back. That's all they wanted, period. But instead of doing the usual blabbering I do about how it's monetary reasons, I think I've come to the conclusion that that's not necessarily true. From a certain point of view maybe, but it could have simply been about the ease of getting STF dil, players with many accounts playing all day, and turning that dil into mass amounts of zen. They did mention how that was a problem for them with the daily reports, how people were getting however much dilithium and sending it over to their mains. So I can see it being freebie zen related and certain players were amassing a wealth of free zen easily. In that case I don't blame them in the least. But I'm still going to be unhappy about it due to the massive dil requirements in this game these days. I can't afford the extra time to make STO my only MMO. I guess it's a personal choice problem I just have to accept and deal with it and move on from typing overly long posts about it.


Besides, I'm much more concerned with romulan marks than I am dilithium these days. Those bitches are grindy as hell. I spent hours and hours and hours yesterday grinding just 250 marks, trying to reach that massive 500 goal for that new console. I think I might have fell asleep at one point for a few seconds. I guess I needed to do more cues than new romulus... I still think it's fine though. Coming from FFXI this **** here is a sub par grind experience at best. FFXI is like the major league and STO is still stuck at tee ball levels of grind play.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,902
# 14
11-25-2012, 11:54 AM
If you do multiple STFs, it's not bad. But doing 8 STFs every day, it gets to you after a while. Even more so if you have no choice but to use the Public Queues and PuG (ooooh I so hate public queue PuGs.......), which has like a 50/50 chance of failure of somekind (Objective or actual STF failure, just had 2 today).
NO to ARC!

Season 9.5 = STO's NGE is Here! Welcome to the Grind!

New Crafting = It's not Crafting, is an overblown Reputation System.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,462
# 15
11-25-2012, 12:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by xantris View Post
They're suppose to be patched in by the end of the month, They're not suggestions, they are straight from Stahl. I'm not sure what more you want, unless whining about stuff that's already been addressed is really that important to you. You can even save your marks and trade them all in at a later date, so it's not like your losing anything from them not being implemented right now.

From what I can tell, it just really peeves you off when someone doesn't hate on season 7, regardless of how baseless the claim is. It's pretty pathetic.
... A surly time traveler, then.

Stahl talked about it. He never said "I guarantee this will happen", as far as I know. Not that it would mean much if he did. He said dilithium in ESTF wasn't going away just prior to season 7's launch, and yet it did, and it took a massive community outcry to restore it (in a very backhanded way that promptly ended any new interest people had in running fleet actions that gave dil).

It's just not accurate to say "Things aren't so bad, you can do this", when we can't. Maybe we can in the future. But until it's actually possible, it's... not possible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by romuzarii View Post
Their ultimate plan was for hardcore players to have less dilithium.
Yup.

They made dilithium about 300% harder to get (ESTF rewards halved, no 1440 dailies) at the same time they introduced new systems that force us to play content that gives no dilithium at all in order to progress in the reputation system and new items with gratuitously high dil costs, many of which are just duplicates of things that we could already get for a loss less effort in previous versions.

I'm in the same boat you are. I used to play until my dil was maxed out and then do other stuff because I was no longer under a "deadline" to get that 8K per character in before evening. But now there's no point. I only need to sign in once a day to check on rep projects and it's impossible to max out my dilithium across 3 characters now unless I turn it into a full time job. They give us one goal that is time gated in a way that we can't progress faster than a snail's pace no matter how much we work on it, and another goal that's been pushed back so far that it's unachievable for anything approaching a sane amount of effort. Now I just can't find the energy to play much at all. I'm not even angry, just.... depressed and apathetic in a way that is making me cast around for something more fun to do with my time.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 891
# 16
11-25-2012, 12:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by romuzarii View Post
That is not valid "bright side" math considering we NEED those omega marks and BNPs to purchase drops for some time AFTER we reach tier 5, and that's assuming not a single soul spends them before then except marks for the rep system.
Doesn't make much difference, most of us will spend the vast majority of this season converting them to dil after the first couple months

Quote:
It is true, though, that eventually we will be in that position. The question is will it be worth it. Well, yes it will be because it will still be the best, quickest method. However, I don't know how you figure 4 STFS as the max we'll get is 1660 dil per STF. Are they still doing wed/thur extra rewards? Since when will there be 1200 dil for opt wins that you mentioned? Is it always going to be 1200 dil for every opt win no matter the day and I missed that part from his mouth? Even at 1200 for opt wins that's just an extra 240 dil per STF. In any case the bare min will be 5 STFs. Then you have to figure the typical time it takes for STFs outside the realm of uber i.e. public cues that are a 1 in 4 chance of being great runs. It's going to take longer than 1 hour to reach 8k dil.
960 to complete
200 for a BNC
750 for 75 omega marks (average reward for eSTF with optional
=1910

Plus any random rewards like the daily event or a loot bag
I get the optional on 95% of my pug runs and it currently takes me about 40 minutes to finish all the space but the new one.. If your not capable of that, run in a premade group and you'll easily manage.

Quote:
I liked the way things were because I could do STFS for a few hours each day, get enough dilithium to last like 3 refinement days, and never have to ever touch another tiring dilithium quest. That's gone now. I wouldn't exactly call it a forgiving system. More like a "**** you" system for never needing to purchase dilithium because I was a hardcore gamer and not a casual gamer. So I suppose you can be happy with the compromise if you wish. Frankly I think that's what Cryptic wanted all along. I seriously think they got less of a black eye going with the way they did than if they had just out right cut the dil earnings because they saw how we reacted every time they would nerf dilithium somewhere in preparations for season 6 and 7. By taking it all away from STFs and then giving it back at a reduced rate it allowed them to get away with it judging by how so many people are now happy with the so called compromise. It's a masterful plan if true. I need to remember it if I ever find myself in the shoes of Dan at some other MMO in the future. If it wasn't planned out they'd do well to remember what happened and use it to their advantage in the future.
I'd like world peace. I also make 3-4k dilithium a day just from doffs off my main., I highly recommend working on that. Making dilithium in this game is ridiculously easy. I play maybe 2 hours 5 days a week and come away with a 2k a day surplus over my daily cap (so 10k total), and I'm not even converting marks and BNc yet. I played 2 hours this morning and I'm already sitting on 12k dilithium today,


Quote:
Their ultimate plan was for hardcore players to have less dilithium. Doesn't matter much what went down or how. It's obvious that was their goal. It's made more obvious than ever when they explain they want more players with dilithium in their bank accounts but go ahead and nerf FAs by 66% regardless because STFs got their dil back. That's all they wanted, period. But instead of doing the usual blabbering I do about how it's monetary reasons, I think I've come to the conclusion that that's not necessarily true. From a certain point of view maybe, but it could have simply been about the ease of getting STF dil, players with many accounts playing all day, and turning that dil into mass amounts of zen. They did mention how that was a problem for them with the daily reports, how people were getting however much dilithium and sending it over to their mains. So I can see it being freebie zen related and certain players were amassing a wealth of free zen easily. In that case I don't blame them in the least. But I'm still going to be unhappy about it due to the massive dil requirements in this game these days. I can't afford the extra time to make STO my only MMO. I guess it's a personal choice problem I just have to accept and deal with it and move on from typing overly long posts about it.
I think the idea was closing down the dilithium gravy train on people who were exploiting multiple alts with a billion doffs who we're doing 5 second dilithium reward clicky missions. Considering the current Zen/Dil conversion, and how much more dil is worth now to the average player, I'd say they were successful. If you consider hardcore as someone who was exploiting alts in the manner described, then yeah I guess they were. Good riddance. I'd argue that even if the average player is making less dil today, that dil is worth more and the average player is coming out way ahead.

Quote:
Besides, I'm much more concerned with romulan marks than I am dilithium these days. Those bitches are grindy as hell. I spent hours and hours and hours yesterday grinding just 250 marks, trying to reach that massive 500 goal for that new console. I think I might have fell asleep at one point for a few seconds. I guess I needed to do more cues than new romulus... I still think it's fine though. Coming from FFXI this **** here is a sub par grind experience at best. FFXI is like the major league and STO is still stuck at tee ball levels of grind play.
Do the space dailys. Then turn them in(and all quests that reward marks) during reward hour. Bonuses are determined by when you turn in quests. It's like 100 marks in 30 minutes or less per day. But I agree, I'm concerned about Romulan marks since that's where I'll be buying the most gear from... Mostly cause I dislike ground combat and the new Tholian missions they put in aren't very fun or challenging.

Last edited by xantris; 11-25-2012 at 12:41 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 689
# 17
11-25-2012, 12:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by xantris View Post
They're suppose to be patched in by the end of the month, They're not suggestions, they are straight from Stahl. I'm not sure what more you want, unless whining about stuff that's already been addressed is really that important to you. You can even save your marks and trade them all in at a later date, so it's not like your losing anything from them not being implemented right now.

From what I can tell, it just really peeves you off when someone doesn't hate on season 7, regardless of how baseless the claim is. It's pretty pathetic.
What I find interesting is how you can break forum rules, by trolling and insulting other players, calling them whiners and pathetic and such, and there are no consequences.

I wonder why that is......

If you can't advance your point without being insulting or breaking forum rules, maybe you shouldn't participate in the forums.
New Rule: Please refrain from naming your starships after reproductive acts, or bodyparts. Nothing says I'm still a virgin more.

Last edited by vengefuldjinn; 11-25-2012 at 12:48 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,404
# 18
11-25-2012, 01:28 PM
All I am saying is I've gone as good as completely in-active from stf.
Not debating whether or not it's humanly possible to earn 8 k a day

If it were just as easy to earn dil now as before, why did we need the changes again
Ensign
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 11
# 19
11-25-2012, 01:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by xantris View Post
Doesn't make much difference, most of us will spend the vast majority of this season converting them to dil after the first couple months



960 to complete
200 for a BNC
750 for 75 omega marks (average reward for eSTF with optional
=1910

.

Sounds too good to be true. Until I see this in an official patch note, I do not believe a word or number.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 736
# 20
11-25-2012, 06:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by vestereng View Post
It's not that bad lol

What I am saying is, the reputation system is gear I have that now costs infintely more than it used to in addition to me having it already.
There's the new alternate sets that have opposite faction specs. You won't have those yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by darimund View Post
Since they're going to make mark conversion to dilithium immediately available instead of tier 5, you can make 1460 dil per estf and still have some marks left over. 960 for completion, and since you always get 60+ marks, convert 50 into 500 dilihtium. so that'll help some what, and when you come to a point where you need marks instead of dilithium, hold back on converting till you get what you need.

Course, this is all pending overlord stahl not wanting to change the dilithium amounts, again.
How long does Omega>Dil conversion project take? If you can't have them complete very quickly then that'll be another time gate to getting your dil.
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