Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,491
# 1 Should we PVPers be more open?
11-23-2012, 07:42 AM
While reading the Forums over the years, and giving out advice, or even newly discovered power combinations thanks to patch changes, I've been starting to wonder...

This is PVP.. should we even be that open with each other?

I mean sure it's ok if there is an effect, ship, or power that might just be too powerful and deserves to be tweeked.

How ever, unless it's for a tournament, I've been starting to wonder if there really is any harm in being more open about how we do some of the insane things players new to PVP see us do?

Sure there are alot of players here that do post their builds, and share what they know. But some times I wonder if there are things that aren't being shared..

And does it really harm us as a community more if we do hold things back..

Sure we don't want everyone to know the stratigies we may come up with as a fleet to pummel the PVP Ques, but then again, maybe that is also hurtful because then we just get called Exploiters, Cheaters, or what not. And while they aren't exactly the worst of insults, doesn't that also drive away players who might be new to the PVP Scene, but get discouraged from such antics?

This is something I thought might make a good discussion topic. I think I'll blaim Deveoras for this one..because his topic about Counter point made me start to think about this in a whole..
You think that your beta test was bad?
Think about this:
American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 12,457
# 2
11-23-2012, 07:56 AM
There have been several threads on builds - both ships and toons. There have been discussions on weapons, consoles, etc, etc, etc - and what the return on those is in PvP vs. PvE. There have even been comp/team recommendations - as far as what works well together. There have been discussions about the importance of situational awareness, the importance of target callers, and the importance of teamwork. Information on keybinds has been shared... you name it - tada, it's out there.

The issue is not a lack of information (outside of things Cryptic hasn't shared) - but rather a case that they simply have not or will not bother looking.

C'mon, you've seen these conversations...

Guy#1: Where'd you see that?
Guy#2: The dev blog.
Guy#1: There's a dev blog?

Guy#1: Where'd you see that?
Guy#2: On the wiki.
Guy#1: There's a wiki?

Guy#1: Where'd you see that?
Guy#2: On the forums.
Guy#1: There's forums?

It's just painful at times...

edit: And by the way, a big thank you to all the folks that have put so much effort into providing all of that information for us - some of the work folks have put into it is mind boggling and simply awesome. Thank you.
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder - R'ebel, Romulan, Haakona
Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba - Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethean, M.Qin

Last edited by virusdancer; 11-23-2012 at 09:15 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 663
# 3
11-23-2012, 08:25 AM
What Virus said is pretty much it.
Co-founder of The Spanish Inquisition TSI - Cause no one expects it!

PaxOttomana: gawd mirror event is like fighting a tsi premade, they keep comin and comin!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 103
# 4
11-23-2012, 08:32 AM
Yes, i think PvPers should be open and if some one needs help then just help him. Why? very simple, usually in PUG matches u can fin all kinda players, from ones that dont have proper gear/skill spec for PVP, to ones that have PVP in their little finger. I know that in PVP is most important thing TEAMPLAY. Lets just say some one is new in PVP and he would like to play PVP matches, that person doesn`t stand a chance to improve without help from players that are really dedicated to PVP.
U can even take an example of me. Yesterday i have decided to ask help from any1 who is reading these forums, and now i have really amazing built for my tac. my ship became an real killer bee! And i wish to tank Pax for helping me out to built my ship.
Now i have way more fun in pvp matches, and i enjoy every single of them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zer0niusrex:
[*]All Warbird descriptions have been updated, typoes removed, and gramer corrected.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,335
# 5
11-23-2012, 08:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
There have been several threads on builds - both ships and toons. There have been discussions on weapons, consoles, etc, etc, etc - and what the return on those is in PvP vs. PvE. There have even been comp/team recommendations - as far as what works well together. There have been discussions about the importance of situational awareness, the importance of target callers, and the importance of teamwork. Information on keybinds has been shared... you name it - tada, it's out there.

The issue is not a lack of information (outside of things Cryptic hasn't shared) - but rather a case that they simply have not or will not bother looking.

C'mon, you've seen these conversations...

Guy#1: Where'd you see that?
Guy#2: The dev blog.
Guy#1: There's a dev blog?

Guy#1: Where'd you see that?
Guy#2: On the wiki.
Guy#1: There's a wiki?

Guy#1: Where'd you see that?
Guy#2: On the forums.
Guy#1: There's forums?

It's just painful at times...
This was painfully brilliant. Your words hold iron.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAA...8qqIg/featured

Imma put this here, again. The second playlist is a good place to start for anyone that's new. Some folks just like to SEE IT. People that have been around for a bit forget that something as simple as using an aux battery before an aux powered heal seems like magic to someone that is new.

Plus there's dancing scences. And a good laugh is ALWAYS tonic for a pvp bruised soul!!

Cheers happy flying!
If I don't respond to posts on this forum don't be offended. I don't sub or follow any of them.
Career Officer
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 246
# 6
11-23-2012, 08:42 AM
I one hundred percent agree, though for a different reasoning then those given, but i one hundred percent believe in the sharing of information because as pvpers it's in our nature to want better competition. To search for weaknesses in our builds to close up. We are perfectionist. and if we're standing at the top of the mountain, who knows we're there unless we let them know?

Now, i can't say much since i haven't played for a year and i lost my skills i think... prolly... never know, but the game has not seemed to change much since then. And i swear I am so anti PTW that i will share ever bit of my knowledge of great builds for Escort class ships just to slam and crash those players.

It's one thing to want to be the best but without competition then whats the point?

Yes there will be bad builds and bad ships out there but those are players who simply didn't want to be good ad god bless them they succeeded.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 197
# 7
11-23-2012, 08:52 AM
Helping newer players with builds and tactics is how we expand the pvp community and get more people on this side of the line to fight for the cause. Most of us are here not because we learned everything on our own over a long stretch of time, but because someone was willing to help us understand the dynamics of the game to become better players in a much shorter time. Hammels post about how glitch helped him is a perfect example. Even if you give 5 players your team build and they copy your build exactly, when you go to fight them, it still comes down to skill which is the whole idea of why we queue, to test our skill.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 514
# 8
11-23-2012, 09:16 AM
I never posted my build, its basically common sense Escort build with 4 dhc's, lulz.

Besides, i always changed my builds and have modular bridge officer stations to suit my needs.

There are things I dont share with the community, self tests which shows off numbers and things which i basically used for myself to conclude my suspicions about certain pieces/weaps/etc better then others. (even if most were common sense to the rest already and considered best) i just wanted to confirm all of it.

Its all in my old STO dictory with dozens of documents Might release it someday but by then its prolly all outdated :C

See you in MWO Webbie

****ˏˍˍˍˍˍ,^.,
**c-(___,/˘
***,/***\,

Last edited by marctraiderz; 11-23-2012 at 09:42 AM.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,625
# 9
11-23-2012, 11:47 AM
if the average pvper was twice as good as he is now, pvp would be more fun. thus i reveal haxs, make help threads, and share all the information i can with everyone. most us us here, theres really not much we can learn from each other at this point, so i don't think its to crazy to reveal my hax to any of you. i did nearly keep all that 2 AtB stuff to myself though...
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,325
# 10
11-23-2012, 12:00 PM
I dont see any harm in openness. The LAG forums have a special section for PVP & PVE builds, they're dated so its nice to see how they've evolved with each season. Is it wrong? I dont think so. I'll never claim to be the best at my craft, but if i can put up a few builds for my fellow fleet members to take and use as remplates for their own builds then it's all good. I've seen many tweek old builds people have put up and come back later with their own as long as you renember to explain to a new player why you use something. Never give them a shopping list or a list kf guidelines, give them options and explained reasoning.
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