Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,593
# 41
11-29-2012, 11:22 AM
He died before his second son was born
he died before he met Gary mitchells DAD and saved him
He died before he met Garth (thus garth also dies)

Garth was a captain while kirk was a cadet (so not much older ) actually the actors were even closer in age

Being slain out of time changed everything

actually somehow Kirk became 20 years younger and went a bit strange as well
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,507
# 42
11-29-2012, 11:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sollvax View Post
He died before his second son was born
he died before he met Gary mitchells DAD and saved him
He died before he met Garth (thus garth also dies)

Garth was a captain while kirk was a cadet (so not much older ) actually the actors were even closer in age

Being slain out of time changed everything

actually somehow Kirk became 20 years younger and went a bit strange as well
1. Kirk was the Younger Son
2. Kirk never met Gary Mitchells Dad, and or saved him. Kirk and Mitchell served together early in their careers and Kirk kept Mitchell with him, as they went up in rank.
3. Their is no record of Garth and Kirk's dad ever meeting in the Prime Universe
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,593
# 43
11-29-2012, 11:39 AM
Kirk is now the ONLY son

Kirk SENIOR not junior knew and interacted with both men mentioned

Its in the "treatment" not the screened episode

anyway
without vulcan im afraid our own era never happens
and the universe will probably end WAY before Picard is born
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,507
# 44
11-29-2012, 11:56 AM
If not mentioned or shown in TV shows or Movies, it didn't happen, and thus is not canon.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,593
# 45
11-29-2012, 01:05 PM
So spock was never born
Kirk never shaves
no one in the universe uses the bathroom??
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,015
# 46
11-29-2012, 01:11 PM
Alright I'm going to put this out there to help those of you that wish to wring some level of enjoyment from JJ's movies.

Just pretend they're called Space Movie and Space Movie 2: Even Spacier.

Listen, Abrams jettisons much of the establishment because of who he is. Remember TOS turbolift rides where the senior staff would have dialogue? This did a number of things, all of which were very TOS. It gave you a sense of how big the ship was, because the lights would indicate multiple changes of direction as the lift moved in 3 dimensions. It allowed the plot to be moved forward and the moral quandary of the day to be pondered. And it let them reuse set pieces so they could save money.

Abrams functions with emotions of the now. He has a pacing that will not take a backseat to lore or expectations. So when Spock gets on a turbolift in the shuttle hangar the door opens on the bridge moments later. Even though there are few points on the ship that are farther apart.

Abrams doesn't need a dialogue to explain why the audience should care about the impending danger, he's just made sure the audience was beaten over the head with a newborn being left fatherless and will make darn sure you get how dangerous the big black ship is when the crew warps into a debris field. Both situations involve warp drive, phasers, and somebody named Kirk, so he's got the most recognizable elements on hand.

This ain't your mama's Trek, it really ain't my Trek. But come on, where were we going? First, where did we start? Star Trek: The Motion Picture was slow as molasses but still awesome in its TOS way. Wrath of Khan, would have been great if only Khan and Kirk had gotten to have a fist fight. Oh wait, the opposite of that. It was great because they didn't have a fistfight.

Next Gen movies tried to make action movies, the results of which were terrible; a wooden McFadden with a phaser rifle defending the Baku; Stewart in a tank top climbing the rope in gym class I mean some random warp core cables; Frakes having a pointless scrum with a Reman which includes all the awful tropes you could want, a gun kick aside, the hero cut on the arm, a knife kicked aside, the villian falling to his death (compare the elements and watchability of this fight with Sulu/Reman pocketsword fight).

So given where we were heading, Abrams is actually an improvement. It's cheese, but it's tasty cheese. He knows how to make an action movie and this is just that; it could be wearing any other skin, it just happens to be Trek.

So any debates about the logic behind the architecture of this universe are pointless, because if Abrams needs somebody to make his Action Movie in Space more actiony he'll use them, logic bedamned.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,221
# 47
11-29-2012, 01:55 PM
In our time, Gary was a 1st year cadet at the Academy, while Kirk(Jim) was a Lt. JG. Student Instructor. Mccoy's scan state that gary was 23 years old when "Where No Man Has Gone Before" took place, That gives him a bd of 2242. Jim was born in 2233. Jim was 9 years older than Gary.

Why can't Gary exist?

In 2269, Garth had already been on Elba II for a number of years. This is well after his feats at the Battle of Axanar. After his tenure at the Academy AND his recuperation on Antos IV.

Jim was 36 when he encountered Garth on Elba II. Since Garths exploits were required learning at the Academy when Kirk was a student, makes Garth at least 30 years older than Kirk. 20 years to join fleet, then 10 years to make a name for himself.

Why can't he exist?

Neither one would have been really affected by George's premature death.
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Career Officer
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# 48
11-29-2012, 02:08 PM
I've been wondering if the "whole fleet has been detonated" thing is really just a metaphor. Maybe there's a civil war or coup? The fleet cohesion was what was actually destroyed. The physical ships still exist.

Porthos is not amused.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 441
# 49
11-29-2012, 02:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by collegepark2151 View Post
I've been wondering if the "whole fleet has been detonated" thing is really just a metaphor. Maybe there's a civil war or coup? The fleet cohesion was what was actually destroyed. The physical ships still exist.
The fleet was all parked in space dock when someone decided to poke around a tricobalt mine. "Ooh, what does this button do?"

*BOOM*

The rest is history.
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Career Officer
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 909
# 50
11-29-2012, 02:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lewstelamon01 View Post
The fleet was all parked in space dock when someone decided to poke around a tricobalt mine. "Ooh, what does this button do?"

*BOOM*

The rest is history.
If so, then JJ Starfleet needs to court martial their strategic planners. That would be two movies in a row where the bulk of the fleet was in a single location.

Porthos is not amused.
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