Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,128
"Upon completion of this special project, your starbase?s interior decoration will be improved. Klingons will acquire weapon trophies, a floor logo and a special wall mural, while mannequins displaying historical uniforms will appear for members of Starfleet. This special project will be available around 10AM PDT on November 29, 2012, until around 10AM PDT on December 13, 2012."

http://sto.perfectworld.com/news/?p=770701

Ok, I know the new KDF and Fed starbase projects look sorta of cool, but we have to ask ourselves, are these shinies really worth the time and resources? Wouldn't the art devs time be more well spent working on new costumes and hair options for the character creator that has been all but completely abandoned? My question is why would the devs put any resources into something we will see for all but 2 seconds and then move on. Alternatively, fleets may have their meetings in front of the manequins or the warriors mural, but how long will that last? Yeah, for about 5-10 minutes and then good bye.

TBH, the devs don't have the proper systems in place to make star bases attractive. Beyond providing the attraction of the 10% gains from fleet ships and the fleet weapons, they are meer vanity with no real connection to the actual game. What I mean to say is that star bases aren't ends in and of themselves because STO end-game gameplay doesn't revolve around starbases. We don't fight within starbases, there is no pvp at star bases, and starbase defense is too scripted to provide a meaningful STO experience. It's difficult to express exactly what I mean, but what I want is a starbase that is more intimately connected with STO as a whole. If that means that even individuals can create their own mini bases, then so be it. I want my star base to feel alive. I want to be able to do activities within it that are meaningful and that aren't necessarily connected with the dilithium market. Meaning, I do them because they are fun, not because I want to grind dilithium, fleet marks, etc.

What would be very cool is if starbases generated some sort of resources so that fleets and/or individuals could be self-sufficient in some minor way. Meaning, upgrade starbases enough, and they will begin to generate a minimum amount of resources on their own. This could be through agriculture-maintaining green houses or farms in artificial environments until you are proficient enough to make profit, through mining installations-manage mining for a month and then tier 2 unlocks automated mining, for example, or anything else for that matter. What the devs are introducing just doesn't feel alive or interconnected with the rest of the game; it comes off more as a bling than meaningful content.

Please provide feedback and ideas for how starbases could be improved so that they feel more like they are part of a persistent world.
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,462
# 2
11-28-2012, 08:00 PM
In the big fleets it's not an issue: if a project costs 200K dil, that's 50 members throwing in half their daily take and it's done instantly. Our small fleet of around 10 active members is having trouble just coming up with enough dilithium for functionality upgrades. It feels bad to write off the "fluff", but since the are all time-limited and have utterly exorbitant costs I think we're going to have to.

I think it would be worth opening a discussion about why Cryptic hates small fleets. It wouldn't be particularly difficult to make the project costs scale to the number of members in the fleet so that every fleet has an equal amount of "work" needed to complete projects regardless of population, but they chose not to do that. Are large fleets more profitable for Cryptic? Less costly? They certainly aren't more STABLE, I've seen more people come and go from a 200-person fleet in a week than I've seen come and go from our small fleet since the launch of season 6.

With the cost of projects not scaling, I kind of feel like as a member of a small fleet I am a second class citizen. I feel vaguely discouraged from even trying to participate in the starbase system due to how much work it DOESN'T take the large fleets. And I honestly have no idea why they think that's the best thing.

Sorry. Had to ramble.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,378
# 3
11-28-2012, 08:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by momaw View Post
I think it would be worth opening a discussion about why Cryptic hates small fleets.
I suspect they are trying to force people into larger fleets so they can go about how "healthy" the game is since they are under the, I suspect false, impression larger Fleets are more social and run events and pretty much keep players on logging in because of the social pressure to be around the Fleet.

Of course that is utter delusional, most Guilds are relative small and megaguilds are usual uncommon and filled with people that only joined for the perks, the pressure to be around is actually higher in a smaller fleet because people do know each other as large fleets are usually filled with faceless members that are not interested in socializing beyond the necessary.

Last edited by f2pdrakron; 11-28-2012 at 08:18 PM.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 147
# 4
11-28-2012, 08:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by f2pdrakron View Post
I suspect they are trying to force people into larger fleets so they can go about how "healthy" the game is since they are under the, I suspect false, impression larger Fleets are more social and run events and pretty much keep players on logging in because of the social pressure to be around the Fleet.

Of course that is utter delusional, most Guilds are relative small and megaguilds are usual uncommon and filled with people that only joined for the perks, the pressure to be around is actually higher in a smaller fleet because people do know each other as large fleets are usually filled with faceless members that are not interested in socializing beyond the necessary.
your red herring fallacy is amusing to say the least.

a game that is not "healthy" doesn't create content updates. for examples of that take a look at Tera online, Fallen Earth and swtor are just a few of said "unhealthy" games.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 968
# 5
11-28-2012, 08:25 PM
Don't these people know that mannequins are terrifying?
The Somraw, K'tinga, D'Kyr, D7, Kumari, Xindi carrier, Xindi escort, and the T'Varo are all older than the Constitution Refit and yet they are tier 5. The rule needs to change.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 802
# 6
11-28-2012, 08:27 PM
The main problem with starbases is that they are not permanent, you always return to a point outside the base. Which makes them useless as a fleets major social hub during daily activity. They are fine for fleet meetings or shopping fleet gear, but that it is.

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[7:07] [Combat (Self)] Your Dual Disruptor Banks - Overload II deals 123086 (41096) Disruptor Damage(Critical) to Assimilated Carrier.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 495
# 7
11-28-2012, 08:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by knuhteb5 View Post
Ok, I know the new KDF and Fed starbase projects look sorta of cool, but we have to ask ourselves, are these shinies really worth the time and resources? Wouldn't the art devs time be more well spent working on new costumes and hair options for the character creator that has been all but completely abandoned? My question is why would the devs put any resources into something we will see for all but 2 seconds and then move on. Alternatively, fleets may have their meetings in front of the manequins or the warriors mural, but how long will that last? Yeah, for about 5-10 minutes and then good bye.
Its already been said, all this stuff was made when season 6 came out. They just hang onto it until its time to release another. It probably took an environmental artist a few days to make all this crap since it's not interactive, not very intricate, and really are just mostly pre-existing assets placed on the map...

What you are suggesting is that it took a considerable amount of time compared to the items you listed that should be worked on instead which is not the case.
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Rihannsu
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,378
# 8
11-28-2012, 09:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by keysmachine View Post
your red herring fallacy is amusing to say the least.
Not as much your FULL SPEED CRYPTIC DEFENSE FOR IS GO!

I can speculate on WHY they were pushing for 25+ members fleets since the system was balanced around that notion, this is a reply over why "Cryptic hates small Fleets" because they sure as hell did not made the system based on the realities of the game.

Quote:
a game that is not "healthy" doesn't create content updates.
Now who is using red herrings?

Quote:
for examples of that take a look at Tera online, Fallen Earth and swtor are just a few of said "unhealthy" games.
Over what?

When was the last mission added to the game? I think it was Alpha for the KDF and that was pre-Season 6, before that we had the "The 2800" that was the Featured episode of 2012, we had Season 6 that was all about Fleet Actions and a Adventure Zone and then we have Season 7 that is all about Patrol Missions, a couple of STFs and a Adventure Zone with, to be fair, 5 missions that are GATED behind a reputation system.

Sure STO added more content that some games but tell me, how long does it take for you to experience all that STO have to offer?

And how long does Starbases take so you can experience all they can offer?

Not to say the Starbase is a dead end, the amount of time required makes it so new Fleets have no chance to catch up, its survival of the strongest that been here at launch because Cryptic messed up idea of "rewarding", a Fleet that been here at S6 Launch and is at T5 have access to BETTER gear that one that started a month ago by people that been here since the game LAUNCHED.

Its tunnel vision.

How long you think this current situation will stand?
Until the "oh we are very active" Megafleets complete everything with everyone had either left or come to grinding halt because they have NO MEANS to progress ANY of the projects without 2-3 weeks of grinding?

STO for guilds is very much the LEAST friendly I had the pleasure of encountering since at least other games actually allows up to bypass the grind in some form or another, STO is "my way or the highway" and only way Guilds can be viable is be here when Season 6 launched and have more 25+ active members, its a system created looking at the past ... a past that never materialized to begin with a system that is unwelcome to new players that want to start up a guild.
Republic Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 996
# 9
11-28-2012, 09:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by momaw View Post
Our small fleet of around 10 active members is having trouble just coming up with enough dilithium for functionality upgrades. It feels bad to write off the "fluff", but since the are all time-limited and have utterly exorbitant costs I think we're going to have to.

My fleet has already stopped witht the fluff stuff. We will continue to hold off on these unless something comes along that we really like. I just hope that they follow through and reduce the cost on the second run whenever that comes around.
If you believe the sky is the limit, you are aiming too low. We must reach beyond the stars - Ambassador Otungku
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