Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 312
# 11
11-30-2012, 01:39 AM
Yeah, a fictional race with useless weapons versus a overrated and misunderstood warrior class with overrated weapons

We all know, that in close combat, pregnant bajoran ex-resistance warriors will always win
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,249
# 12
11-30-2012, 01:51 AM
It's also dependent on ERAS-late Samurai period, the Samurai also used firearms (in spite of the sensationalist crap spouted in the movie "The Last Samurai", the truth is that Samurai adopted firearms from the Portuguese traders, and had guns from the 16th Century on up to the Meiji reassertion of the Emperor's authority in the 19th century!)

"Samurai" further, is not merely a suit of armor and selection of gear-it was and is a social CLASS, a mindset, and is not 'gear dependent'.

An STO era "Samurai" may well be packing vibroblade weaponry (or STO equivalent), Phasers, and advanced personal armor, or a "Tokugawa Era" Klingon be packing a gunpowder hand-gun along with his Bat'leth and Mek'leth, while an earlier era Klingon may well be carrying a bow every bit recognizable to a Samurai in terms of function, even in terms of DESIGN, with era-similar/appropriate armor as well.

All talk of armament aside, (or, with all weapons being of equal materials/function appropriate to the matching of the eras...)

What you would get is this:

The Klingon and the Samurai meet on an open field. EACH is motivated by a similar honour system, EACH is a master of their culture's "martial Arts" (the Samurai a master of familiar earth styles, the Klingon a Dahar Master of Mok'bara's martial cousin)

They size one another up, each watches the other's body language for ques as to what he or she will do, before committing to the attack, Because each actually follows a very similar martial code (Klingons, even in the OLD series, never attacked when they were unready-unlike Kzin/Ferasans.)

The one with the least experience will move first, and be defeated by the other, and Physiology has nothing to do with it (per observed in all Star Trek shows, Klinks may have all them redundant physiology quirks, and may have a higher 'base' strength, but they're limited to the same extreme ranges as humans and other humanoids-elswise they'd always win bar-fights-and they don't.)

For the witnesses on either side, the fight will be over in seconds, win or lose, because neither fighter is likely to "hold back" in the typical European way, and both will move with speed to devastate the other, and neither fears death as much as they do failure.

On Odds?

I'd have to give it to the Klingon-by a very, very, close margin, and it has to do with reach. Klingons are taller and longer-limbed than humans by a small margin, and have a slight strength and dexterity advantage. At equal skill, the Klink will simply move more decisively and more effectively than the Samurai of equal skill and equivalent age.

But it would require certain SPECIFIC things also be equal:

Equal social status-not all Klingons, not even all Klingon Warriors, are of an equivalent social status to a Samurai within Klingon culture, just as not all Japanese soldiers are Samurai in Japan's ancient culture. A typical Klink Warrior would get his ass chopped to chunky bits by a full Samurai using equivalent tech at an era-appropriate skill, just as a "bushi" would be shredded meat on the Bat'leth of a Dahar Master.

But a Dahar Master against a True Samurai might win-he'd still be hurt VERY badly, and might not survive his victory.
"when you're out of Birds of Prey, you're out of ships."

I play KDF, because being a genocidal maniac works better with Klingons, than explaining it as a member of Starfleet.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,775
# 13
11-30-2012, 03:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickngo View Post
But a Dahar Master against a True Samurai might win-he'd still be hurt VERY badly, and might not survive his victory.
That's how I always envisaged it, and I quite agree, that while the Dahar Master might win, his injuries would certainly be severe, if not mortal.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,593
# 14
11-30-2012, 03:59 AM
The Average Klingon trained for war from BIRTH is going to beat the samurai

however if it was a poetry contest or an origami one the Samurai might stand a chance

both the Samurai and the "ninja" have been over inflated by hollywood and other film makers

A samurai was no more deadly than the average professional soldier
he was all powerful in japan because 99% of the population did not have weapons or training

Samurai engaged by european troops got massacred (close order drill and guns mostly)

Actually a fight I would like to see is a Klingon warrior (at his peak) against an LV426 Xenomorph
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,775
# 15
11-30-2012, 04:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sollvax View Post
The Average Klingon trained for war from BIRTH is going to beat the samurai

however if it was a poetry contest or an origami one the Samurai might stand a chance

both the Samurai and the "ninja" have been over inflated by hollywood and other film makers

A samurai was no more deadly than the average professional soldier
he was all powerful in japan because 99% of the population did not have weapons or training

Samurai engaged by european troops got massacred (close order drill and guns mostly)

Actually a fight I would like to see is a Klingon warrior (at his peak) against an LV426 Xenomorph
I agree about the over-inflation of the Samurai and Ninja deadliness. However. The Samurai has the kanabo in his arsenal, and that can deliver blows which would be crippling, if not immediately fatal, even to a Klingon, and that is what I think would give the Samurai the chance to 'break down' his Klingon opponent and then go in for a kill with a katana.

With that said, I do think that the Klingon would win, but I think he may do so gravely wounded, and I think that the Samurai could win against the Klingon if he does so in the right way...


Klingon Vs Xenomorph would be messy, and I suspect a similar outcome as above. Barehanded, the Klingon could probably kill the Xenomorph, but would probably receive wounds in the process which could be fatal in the long term... If the Klingon was using weapons, then he would have the same chances as the hunter in AVP...

I think another interesting match up, would be a hand to hand fight between a Klingon and a Nietzschean.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 54
# 16
12-02-2012, 04:09 PM
All I could say for certain on this topic is that the fight would go with one of two directions- as it is with any pair of masters from any martial backing facing eachother on equal footing.

It could be a long, drawn out stalemate of a battle, in which it would come to wits, endurance, and luck as each concentrated on protecting themselves and waiting for an opportunity to end the battle decisively. In this scenario I believe the Klingon would have the advantage as they are predisposed towards high physical exertion, and while a severe blow would be just as crippling as to any other humanoid- their cultural practices and rites do provide great opportunity to shrug off the pain and duress of lesser wounds- making it easier for a Klingon to outlast a Samurai.

On the other end of the coin would be the short, decisive battle lasting no more than a handful of moves- a condition most favoring the samurai as their ingrained philosophy of battle is one strike, one kill. be precise, draw the enemy into comitting to a maneuver, turn it on the attacker, counter, finish. A fight between samurai is a game of mental chess. "What do i know? What does he know? How can I use that to trick him into doing 'X' so i can do 'Y'?" And the Klingon philosophy of reaction and intimidation plays into this sort of cool headed strategy and planning od a samurai- allowing for an advantage to the human.

So in the end the fight, whether short or long, would be decided almost literally in the first move. Klingon lunges, samurai sweeps and counters- deciding factor- can the Klingon react with the heavier and slower bat'leth to turn aside the riposte? leading to a drawn out battle and his more likely victory? Or will the Klingon be too slow, and decisively defeated in the opening moments.

In the end I say a direct 50/50. Only luck could decide. Luck, that critical moment, and the minds of the warriors within that moment and how each responds.
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