Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,866
# 31
12-01-2012, 10:47 AM
Let me get this straight:

You want people, the people I deal with everyday, to function in a space environment?

As long as I can plant a camera to watch all the fun.

Space is not the final Frontier. Astronauts are EXTREMELY well trained to be more than human and they sometimes still die.

Your average human being has a life expectancy measured in minutes in even the bect controlled space environment.

Think about it: How many people do you know forget things all the time and have to be reminded about them?

One mistake, just one, you're dead. No do-overs.

This endeavor is doomed from the start.

Last edited by thlaylierah; 12-01-2012 at 01:36 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 649
# 32
12-01-2012, 11:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by aestu View Post
Where's yours? You say you did "research" and read "magazines and websites" but no sources or specifics.

My proof? As I said, government space programs got men in orbit for decades and even sent them to the moon. That is a fact. It is also a fact that private industry has not been able to do so.

It is also a fact that the Space Shuttle, a vastly more complex launch vehicle, attained over 96% reliability. Saturn V had 100% reliability. Sea Launch had 90% reliability, and SpaceX has 75% reliability, using far simpler vehicles with far more meager capability. All those are facts, hard against private space launch.

Private space launch is objectively inferior, and the arguments in favor of it are purely ideological. Like Maoist collectivised agriculture, it sounds great on paper, but just doesn't work in real life.
lmao, The private sector is working with the governments that have had experience with space. Private sector has more resources and money the government has the experience so the will come out on top. And still have not seen you proof yet. My proof from websites and magazines such as NASA, ESA, new scientist, how stuff works, aviation week, space.com and the websites of the companies making the spacecraft.
To name a few.

Last edited by raj011; 12-01-2012 at 11:45 AM.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 125
# 33
12-01-2012, 11:48 AM
Only if Arnold or Ronny Cox were in charge.

Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,059
# 34
12-01-2012, 12:18 PM
Governments held a premium on spaceflight because they could throw away billions of dollars without giving consideration to the bottom line and not least because they prohibited non-governmental activity.
We are a century at least before anything like an active colony on Mars is thinkable.
There is more to the endeavor than just getting there, having the money to pay for just getting there does not cover the expense of keeping you alive there, humans would need to bring everything with them, food, air, clothing, etc. It might be possible to extract water and air from Mars itself but that and the means to grow food would require a massive infrastructure to support it. Unlike the moon which has no atmosphere Mars has to regularly contend with hundreds of mile per hour sandstorms and any environment constructed there would have to be able to withstand that, that would not come cheap.
Could something be set up as a tourist attraction for the super rich, yes.
There is nothing particularly prohibitive about space that requires Astronaut level training any more than there is required for scuba diving, just basic instruction in the use of an atmosphere suit, under the assumption that none of this would be taking place without constant qualified supervision.
As for a corporate operation, like a mining colony, there would have to be some kind of valuable asset there worth billions for corporations to consider financing something like that and if they are running things it will not be a pleasant environment for the average Joe, think back to the old mining towns on Earth for a better perspective on that, when the corporation owns and controls everything, the workers are little more than slaves.
It's not impossible, but a colony where anyone can just go to live or visit is something that won't exist for a long time yet. None of us will be alive to see it.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 447
# 35
12-01-2012, 01:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thlaylierah View Post
Let me get this straight: You want people, the people I deal with everyday, to function in a space environment? This endeavor is doomed from the start.
Freighters travel the sea all the time now, but back in the days of Cook or Columbus it was dangerous business indeed. And accidents at sea still happen.

A lot can happen in a few hundred years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by raj011 View Post
lmao, The private sector is working with the governments that have had experience with space. Private sector has more resources and money the government has the experience so the will come out on top. And still have not seen you proof yet. My proof from websites and magazines such as NASA, ESA, new scientist, how stuff works, aviation week, space.com and the websites of the companies making the spacecraft.
To name a few.
If they are getting handouts from the govt it is no more a private venture than any other form of welfare. The private sector does NOT have more resources - the problems of private space flight are trying to do everything on the cheap.

I supplied proof of my position with reference to specific facts and data. Your unwillingness to accept those facts does not invalidate them.

Private space travel sucks, can't do what governments have done for 50 years - and not for want of trying - and the only justification for it is ideological bias.

Last edited by aestu; 12-01-2012 at 01:05 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,059
# 36
12-01-2012, 01:23 PM
Governments have never built a spaceship, they never designed the technology, researched the science, nor worked out the protocols. Governments may be signing the checks and calling the shots but the actually meat and potatoes of space has always been in the hands of the aerospace industry.
It's never been impossible for private industry to mount a space program, they just need a good enough reason to do it.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,593
# 37
12-01-2012, 01:28 PM
Actually most space tech is military work adjusted for civilian use
Example the rockets that put the first man on the moon (whenever that happened its disputed) were a product of the V1 V2 V3 programs
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 447
# 38
12-01-2012, 01:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by maxvitor View Post
Governments have never built a spaceship, they never designed the technology, researched the science, nor worked out the protocols. Governments may be signing the checks and calling the shots but the actually meat and potatoes of space has always been in the hands of the aerospace industry. It's never been impossible for private industry to mount a space program, they just need a good enough reason to do it.
I'm really sorry, but claims ARE just plain wrong. You can split hairs about NASA employees vs private contractors, but the USSR had no contractors at all.

The USSR had a space program that was good enough that Soyuz craft are still the basis of most modern launch vehicles (including Sea Launch).

Quote:
Originally Posted by sollvax View Post
Actually most space tech is military work adjusted for civilian use
Example the rockets that put the first man on the moon (whenever that happened its disputed) were a product of the V1 V2 V3 programs
The V1 rocket was a pulse jet and was no more similar to a space launch vehicle than a passenger jet. The V3 was a big gun and not a rocket of any sort. von Braun's engine was basically a copypaste of Goddard's original design, and Goddard was a civilian through and through.

If WW2 didn't happen, space travel would have happened anyway (and probably in a bigger way).

Last edited by aestu; 12-01-2012 at 01:33 PM.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,866
# 39
12-01-2012, 01:32 PM
And they land on the ground.

(Ouch!)
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,593
# 40
12-01-2012, 01:32 PM
But not for 300 years maybe

Actually there was No civilian rocket science prior to the late 1970's
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