Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 11,107
Todays question of the day, is: Why are the enemies so dumb?

I know artificial intelligence is the hardest thing to program, and making it good is even harder. But right now, the enemies have a very small behavior pool to choose from, and as such feel rather samey. Even small, subtle differences between enemy races, types, and classes would go a long way to adding variety to the game.

For example: Why can't Jem'hadar bugs attempt to ram me in order to scare the bajeezus out of me, or upon sensing their impending doom? Why can't there be a special Orion ship that attempts to attack you at the speed of light then blows up if it fails to kill you? How come ships can't retreat when they feel out gunned? Certainly shouldn't happen all the time, but would be nice to be the one watching them run once and a while. Why aren't groups of BoP's lining up on a singly shield, unloading on it, and then firing torps when the shield falls? Why don't all higher level enemies do that? Timing torps right is one of the first things you learn in the game.

Things like that would be awesome, and would add variety, difficulty, immersion, and awesomeness to a game that needs it. Sure it's a long time goal, but should definitely be one to be considered.
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Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 5,771
# 2
12-03-2012, 01:29 AM
Indeed. A better AI would go a long, LONG way in helping the difficulty of the game actually be hard, especially on the 'elite' level stuff without just using 'super HP' and 'super hard hitting' enemies for the pretending of difficulty.

Of course, normal should still be 'easy mode' for those who'd want it, but elite should truly make someone sweat and work at it. Make us NEED a tank, make us NEED a healer, make us NEED sustained DPS, not just burst DPS to kill everything as quickly as possible.


Why are all of STO's EPs named 'Steve'?
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 948
# 3
12-03-2012, 01:34 AM
I'm sick of HP crunching... Give me better AI with the same HP as I have and some SKILL.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,119
# 4
12-03-2012, 01:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by centersolace View Post
Todays question of the day, is: Why are the enemies so dumb?
ANS: Because its a CRYPTIC Game, nuff said

CRYPTIC's idea of a SMART enemy is increasing its hit points to a Gazillion HP, while tossing you an invisble torp from hell that does 99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 99999% Damage.

Seriously, you would think they would take a page from games like FEAR, where the enemies adapt to your gameplay style and tries to out flank you or out smart you, but nooooooo - We get the Elite Borg Drone from HELL that shoots you with a single glob of energy that does 9,000 points of damage.

"It's over 9,000 THOUSAND !!!!" - Breaks the scout reader

Last edited by stark2k; 12-03-2012 at 01:43 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 11,107
# 5
12-03-2012, 05:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mimey2 View Post
Indeed. A better AI would go a long, LONG way in helping the difficulty of the game actually be hard, especially on the 'elite' level stuff without just using 'super HP' and 'super hard hitting' enemies for the pretending of difficulty.

Of course, normal should still be 'easy mode' for those who'd want it, but elite should truly make someone sweat and work at it. Make us NEED a tank, make us NEED a healer, make us NEED sustained DPS, not just burst DPS to kill everything as quickly as possible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by captainbmoney View Post
I'm sick of HP crunching... Give me better AI with the same HP as I have and some SKILL.
Damage Sponges and OHKO's aren't necessarily bad, it's just their seems to be nothing but DS's and OHKO's. Why can't their be things that take your weapons, or individual weapons offline, and knockbacks and the like.

Also, Cryptic needs to take into account different player types when designing baddies.With the Jem'Hadar trying to ram you example, that wouldn't really be that effective against escorts and other smaller maneuverable ships, but for a Cruiser, that would be terrifying. Conversely, an enemy dedicated to roots, holds, or placates would barely effect a Cruiser captain, but would spell utter doom for an escort.

That sort of thing doesn't really exist in this game.
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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,961
# 6
12-03-2012, 05:31 PM
Because Cryptic lacks the competence to implement smarter A.I. into the game. I mean, c'mon. They can't even get pathfinding and collision detection right...

You want smarter enemies? PvP is your best bet.
@HyperLimited - Join Date: Oct 2009 - My Youtube Stuff - Unused Romulan Notifications

Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,196
# 7
12-03-2012, 05:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stark2k View Post
ANS: Because its a CRYPTIC Game, nuff said

CRYPTIC's idea of a SMART enemy is increasing its hit points to a Gazillion HP, while tossing you an invisble torp from hell that does 99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 99999% Damage.

Seriously, you would think they would take a page from games like FEAR, where the enemies adapt to your gameplay style and tries to out flank you or out smart you, but nooooooo - We get the Elite Borg Drone from HELL that shoots you with a single glob of energy that does 9,000 points of damage.

"It's over 9,000 THOUSAND !!!!" - Breaks the scout reader
If that was their idea of smart, then why did they allow C-Store ship NPC's to use their special consoles? That's not in line with simple DPS and HP concerns
Quote:
Originally Posted by hypl View Post
Because Cryptic lacks the competence to implement smarter A.I. into the game. I mean, c'mon. They can't even get pathfinding and collision detection right...

You want smarter enemies? PvP is your best bet.
They could make all that, but the fact is, it's not a priority. And you'd be better off leaving implications like that out, even if they are your opinion.
Was named Trek17, but still an author.

Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh'. I have nothing against the game/devs, nor any particular wish to talk bad about either, or praise most decisions. Still, it's better to be positive than cynical.

Last edited by trek21; 12-03-2012 at 05:48 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 11,107
# 8
12-03-2012, 05:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hypl View Post
Because Cryptic lacks the competence to implement smarter A.I. into the game. I mean, c'mon. They can't even get pathfinding and collision detection right...

You want smarter enemies? PvP is your best bet.
That may be all well and good, but I prefer not to fight things that insult my mother.
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Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 2,295
# 9
12-03-2012, 05:58 PM
I never saw a game with AI that wasn't absolutely pathetic.

Terminator II and the whole "machines taking over the world!!!111" always made me laugh watching windows spam one blue screen after another.

In the end I am just glad I usually never crash in sto at all.

I don't think there ever will be even marginal solid AI - anywhere.
A friend told me about a fps'er where they had bots try to mimic behaviour, one would stalk you, another would try to camp but no matter how many types you program they will always be completely transparent.

To me it's basically a compliment to human cognition, showing you might be able to calcuate fast but well there is something else there too.

To build an AI that would be able to compete even on a small level, it would have to be self-aware and able to change its own program in 1/400 second.

Anyway it's a real interesting topic and some games have attempted to exceed "trial and error" gameplay in what they call dynamic gameplay if you ever played l4d or swat 4, where the npcs would not only change their tactics everytime you loaded the map but would also change depending on what you did.
It works a little but only as far as it just takes you longer to figure out the set paths.

To create an actual AI would be quite brilliant actually, we talking nobel prize or whatever

It's a reporting error®
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,961
# 10
12-03-2012, 06:05 PM
One thing that annoys me is when enemies (Breen frigates in particular) pop evasive maneuvers right at the start of combat... and don't go anywhere? It just makes combat last an unnecessary ~8 seconds longer, depending on how many hits you can get off while they're evading.

Come to think of it, I haven't seen any enemies utilize evasive maneuvers well as of recent. Mogais used to fly off incredibly fast when they use it. I don't see them do that anymore.

And since we're fighting enemy ships in asteroid fields all the time, why not have them use the asteroids for cover? They 'sometimes' do it out of pure coincidence, but not often enough.
@HyperLimited - Join Date: Oct 2009 - My Youtube Stuff - Unused Romulan Notifications

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