Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,625
# 21
12-04-2012, 04:26 AM
The only problem I saw with the old system was that each part of the set could only be found in a specific map. Like Having to do Infected for this, Cure for that. If we would have gotten a random drop for a random part of the set not matter what STF we did, I would have been perfectly satisfied.

The reason behind this? Cure Elite (space or Ground). Every time I used the public system, I never once won Cure. Never. There was always that one bugger who refused to listen, and went straight for the cubes. Sending the Warships after us in only a few minutes. In addition, the Warships could practically one-hit kill the Kang.

And the Ground one is almost impossible. The generators never stay active long enough for us to transition past that point. Plus the turrets that pop up EVERY time you have to re-activate the generators....Every match I have been in, everyone gets stuck there, and leaves the match

The ONLY times I have ever won Cure, was in a private Fleet match, where we ALL know what we are doing. Even so, every time I ran Cure that way, I never once got the tech needed.

So, if Cryptic were to bring back the old drop system, but make the tech random no matter what map it is, and I will be happy with that.

I completed a 2-man CSE, ISE, and KASE, Optionals included. And I soloed Winter Invasion.
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,069
# 22
12-04-2012, 04:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lindaleff View Post
So, if Cryptic were to bring back the old drop system, but make the tech random no matter what map it is, and I will be happy with that.[/color]
they already did that and peopel grind ISE because its easy.I said many times that they should remove all stfs except ISE from the pve menu.That way people will find it easier and rename the join button to "grind" "or grind with your team"
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,077
# 23
12-04-2012, 04:40 AM
The truth is many players wanted the easy way out, that was their desire. Instead of doing the end game dungeon and earning their Elite Gear, now they can simply buy the Elite Gear, which is pure and utter tripe.

I'm not bashing folks for liking the new system, thats not my point, my point is that players can merely BUY the Gear that you once had to earn.

Elite Game Gear is not meant to drop frequently - look at games like Tera or WoW - In Tera only one person in a server earned the top gear over there, it was a badge of honor to defeat one of the toughest bosses in the game.

Unforunately; STO do not have tough bosses, they have CHEAP bosses.

and mattjohnsonva, didn't mean to offend - but I still disagree, eventually you would have earned your set.

if there was anyone that has reason to ***** and whine, it would be me. This is because I do have 40+ toons to deal with, and out of the 40+ toons at least 9 are at VA status and they have at least two parts of one set and one part of another. So under the old system I would be in the right to ***** and complain.

But here is the thing: Under the old system it took time but you would eventually earn your Mk XII, and if you suck at playing, tough luck - seriously; stay out of the Big Leagues if you cannot handle the pressure. I do not say that with an air of arrogance, but out of common sense.

Mk XII belong in the Elite STF which is considered to be end game dungeon like most MMO have. To be honest STO is far more forgiving in its end game dungeon approach than your typical MMO.

What Cryptic should have done:

Increase the drop rate of the Mk XII Gear slightly and made it a random drop per team, not per player - That way players could roll Need, Greed, or Pass. I know some of you would see opportunity of abuse, but, this is how its done on a typical end game dungeon in all other MMO's.

Note on the NEW system:

I'm not saying its a horrible and terrible system, do not confuse what I am saying, and in all honesty it is now easier to get my Mk XII for my 40+ toons though its going to virtually cost me an arm & a leg. Trust me the new system is NOT friendly towards players with many alts, at least from an ingame economic view.

I would love to have the old STF system back, but lets be realisitc, the new one is here to stay.

Last edited by stark2k; 12-04-2012 at 04:44 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,003
# 24
12-04-2012, 04:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stark2k View Post
The truth is many players wanted the easy way out, that was their desire. Instead of doing the end game dungeon and earning their Elite Gear, now they can simply buy the Elite Gear, which is pure and utter tripe.

I'm not bashing folks for liking the new system, thats not my point, my point is that players can merely BUY the Gear that you once had to earn.

Elite Game Gear is not meant to drop frequently - look at games like Tera or WoW - In Tera only one person in a server earned the top gear over there, it was a badge of honor to defeat one of the toughest bosses in the game.

Unforunately; STO do not have tough bosses, they have CHEAP bosses.
When comparing gear systems, Guild Wars 2 rewards one gear token to everyone finishing a dungeon, every time. Just saying.

I haven't played the game yet, so I can't judge the quality, but in GW1, all (max-level) gear was equally powerful. Identical, in stats, even. Including the story line quest rewards. GW2 apparently retained that philosophy, because they were happy with the system.

Gear systems vary according to design philosophies, and are received differently according to player mindsets.

In this game that wouldn't really work, I suppose, because there is less focus on costumes and titles. I do think that the MMO industry, as a whole, should spend some time thinking about what people enjoy, in terms of endgame, and focus on those elements. I think, for me, that enjoyable teamwork-oriented missions are more rewarding than gear- and systemgrind, and confess that I like KASE and CSE more than ISE exactly for that reason.

On the dilithium costs involved: I've actually been producing more dilithium than before, with handing in spare NP's (even got 14 as a bonus drop yesterday) and some marks. I figured I'd get more NP's and marks by the time I get to T4/5, and be better off getting dil/zen, to prepare for the winter festivity sale I'm expecting ^^
Lieutenant
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 39
# 25
12-04-2012, 05:19 AM
I'm a fairly new player and these costs don't seem high to me at all. We're talking about the best of gear here, for the few extra percentages of performance -- if you're unwilling to work for that, settle for the 90-95% as effective variants instead.

I like it when a game has goals that actually require effort rather than just hand it to you. And instead of having the nightmare of RNG the system is actually quite fair -- unlike, as others have mentioned, in many other games.

High-end gear shouldn't be the standard that everyone can be assumed to have, it should be something that represents a degree of dedication from those who attain it.

If anything the reputation system already favours casual players rather heavily since you can't speed projects along nor can any amount of playing surpass the daily refining limit.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,963
# 26
12-04-2012, 05:32 AM
Considering this is elite gear, the omega marks are actually a walk in the park to get, especially with the new system that drops extra from time to time. the dilithium is a pain, but its the price we pay for it not being random anymore, and you get to buy the item you wnat playing the mission you want.

if you get to a point where you have excess marks and BNP's then you can trade them in for easy dilithium. its very possible to get around 4000 dilithium in a single run if you are lucky, and 2000 if you are unlucky.

once people hit rank 5 and unlock all the stuff they want the whole system turns into endless dilithium. even the rank up is 960 every 20 hours.

people with minimal effort will be unlocking xii gear in a month or two and then will be in a position to get huge amounts of dilithium. this is compared to the old system of possibly never getting the stuff you want no matter how much you played.

House of Cards - Lvl 46 Fed mission
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 84
# 27
12-04-2012, 05:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stark2k View Post
The truth is many players wanted the easy way out, that was their desire. Instead of doing the end game dungeon and earning their Elite Gear, now they can simply buy the Elite Gear, which is pure and utter tripe.

I'm not bashing folks for liking the new system, thats not my point, my point is that players can merely BUY the Gear that you once had to earn.

Elite Game Gear is not meant to drop frequently - look at games like Tera or WoW -...(snip)
That stopped being true in wow in 2006. When burning crusade came out you got damn good epics by losing your 5 arena games a week, sure they took that away the same time they put in daily quests that awarded justice points (which you used to buy raid level gear). In wrath of the lich king you could buy raid level crafted gear and got valor points (used for buying raid level gear) from running outdated content. Same model in cataclysm. In mists of pandaria you get valor points from doing single player daily quests (before the quests ((theoretically)) required a group for raid currency) to buy your raid gear.
Cant speak for tera though.

This is a good system, 1 elite stf a day is enough to do my projects to tier up with a little left over. It puts a MUCH needed EC sink into the game and it gives me a clear path to success with none of the BS surrounding rare drops (which is the very reason blizzard put those raid/dungeon currencies into the game ive seen people farm molten core every week for 7 years and still not get thunderfury ). Sure EVENTUALLY you'll get all your rare loot, same way that you'll eventually win the lottery if you play the same numbers every week. Doesnt mean that its worth it.
Ignorance is an obstacle not an excuse
Let the stupid suffer
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,069
# 28
12-04-2012, 06:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by frontline2042 View Post
This is a good system, 1 elite stf a day is enough to do my projects to tier up with a little left over. It puts a MUCH needed EC sink into the game and it gives me a clear path to success with none of the BS surrounding rare drops (which is the very reason blizzard put those raid/dungeon currencies into the game ive seen people farm molten core every week for 7 years and still not get thunderfury ). Sure EVENTUALLY you'll get all your rare loot, same way that you'll eventually win the lottery if you play the same numbers every week. Doesnt mean that its worth it.
Thats why mk XI stuffs is more than enough for you.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,003
# 29
12-04-2012, 06:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by adrianm63 View Post
Thats why mk XI stuffs is more than enough for you.
Have you ever compared the mk XI and mk XII versions of these sets, side by side?

Mk XI is enough for everybody. The difference is negligible.

While nice to get the mk XII sets, in terms of achievement, the biggest boon you are likely to get from obtaining it is the additional playtime and, consequently, experience and knowhow.

That is not to say that mk XII isn't a valid goal or target, mind you. In terms of performance gain it's just overrated; a person that knows how to play well will be just as effective using the mk XI versions.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,069
# 30
12-04-2012, 06:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by twam View Post
Have you ever compared the mk XI and mk XII versions of these sets, side by side?

Mk XI is enough for everybody. The difference is negligible.

While nice to get the mk XII sets, in terms of achievement, the biggest boon you are likely to get from obtaining it is the additional playtime and, consequently, experience and knowhow.

That is not to say that mk XII isn't a valid goal or target, mind you. In terms of performance gain it's just overrated; a person that knows how to play well will be just as effective using the mk XI versions.
Of course but you see it doesnt matter mk XII is just +1 ,they wanted to buy it without playing and now every person will have mk XII stuffs.There is no reason to make anyone be a elite player and play or improve their builds and strategy for elite stfs (ground and space).You will see players walking around in mk XII maco or omega armor thinking they know how to play ground stfs....when all they have to do is play once with 4 good players and get the accolade .

There is no difference between a team of 5 players that can end IGE with over 3 minutes left for the optional and a team of 5 players who rage quit at the second room....both will have mk XII stuffs.
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