Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,273
# 61
12-06-2012, 02:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sophlogimo View Post
Hm...Builds.

4 DHC's, 4 turrets
CRF3, CRF2, APD1x2, TT1x2, EPTS1x2, A2SIF1, TB1, HE2, TSS3


6 Single Beams, 2 Torps
APO3, BO3, TS2x2, TT1x2, EPTS1x2, A2SIF1, TSS1, TSS2, HE3


Or possibly this:

4 DHC's, 4 turrets
CRF3, CRF2, APB1x2, TT1x2, EPTS1x2, A2SIF1, TSS1, ES1, ES2
Polaron weapons, Breen ship's console. Possibly the Breen set for the Breen Energy Siphon on top of it.
I'd run either the first or third build you recommend for PvE. NPCs don't resist tractors very well, and most of the really snazzy stuff is wasted or ineffective on NPCs imo, except in the more difficult scenarios (elite STFs, etc).

This Breen ship has some interesting possibilities. . .
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,916
# 62
12-06-2012, 02:18 AM
Oh, I was not exactly recommending, just thinking loudly.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,395
# 63
12-06-2012, 02:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thegrimcorsair View Post
It's Tac-heavy and out turns the Vetsa while having better shields than most escorts. Stick a VM1+Doff up there in the LTC slot w/ Ens Engineer for rotating... pretty much whatever you like (my money's on EPtA and EPtS with an RSP or Aux2Sif in the LT slot) and it ought to get by just peachy. Well, you can hope anyway. It's still out turning a Fleet Vor'cha.
The shields and hull and all that stuff aren't really the issue...

What it comes down to (for me at least) is this:

An escort's role is damage
A cruiser's role is tankyshank/healing
A (Klinkydink) "battlecruiser" performs both to satisfactory levels of effectiveness

The proposed Breen ship is not really a "battlecruiser". It has no slots for survivability to make up for its turn and its sluggish speed, the saving grace that allows Klink snoozers to shine. In fact it's just a plain ol' escort, one whose layout we already more or less have in the existing game.

Other than the fun console I can't see what's unique or compelling about the ship. I suppose a comparison to the Besta is fair but honestly I think the latter performs its task much better (disruption)

vids and guides and stuff

[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 350
# 64
12-06-2012, 04:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shimmerless View Post
The shields and hull and all that stuff aren't really the issue...

What it comes down to (for me at least) is this:

An escort's role is damage
A cruiser's role is tankyshank/healing
A (Klinkydink) "battlecruiser" performs both to satisfactory levels of effectiveness

The proposed Breen ship is not really a "battlecruiser". It has no slots for survivability to make up for its turn and its sluggish speed, the saving grace that allows Klink snoozers to shine. In fact it's just a plain ol' escort, one whose layout we already more or less have in the existing game.

Other than the fun console I can't see what's unique or compelling about the ship. I suppose a comparison to the Besta is fair but honestly I think the latter performs its task much better (disruption)
Klink cruisers might have the possibility of running more defense but there are very successful builds out there without them. Actually I see more of them running WP or DEM pretty high. The new breen ship will be more like a fleet vorcha. It just replaces toys like DEM and maybe WP with a little more tac and sci. Also sci offers some options for self heals. And the turn rate is better than a fleet vorcha or even a vesta.

I don't know how this ship will perform in an actual premade battle but it will do fine in PUGland. I am really looking forward to trying this thing.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 9,340
# 65
12-06-2012, 04:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shimmerless View Post
I can't see what's unique or compelling about the ship.
The Chel Grett's a Warship/Heavy Destroyer.

Vs. Chimera:
-Lt Sci +Lt Tac/-LCdr Uni +LCdr Sci
+1500 Hull/+0.1 Shield/-1 TR/-0.04 IMod/+5 Eng Power
+1 AFT Wep/+1 Sci Console/-100 Crew

Vs. Peghqu':
-Lt Sci +Lt Tac/-LCdr Uni +LCdr Sci
+1500 Hull/+0.167 Shield/-1 TR/-0.04 IMod/+5 Eng Power
+1 AFT Wep/+1 Sci Console/-100 Crew

It's not a case of looking for that point somewhere between a Cruiser and an Escort. It's looking for that point somewhere between a Battle Cruiser and a Destroyer.

The Warship/Heavy Destroyer type of ships...provide options.

Put an Eng in an Assault Cruiser/Battle Cruiser. Hrmmm...
Put an Eng in a Warship/Heavy Destroyer...

Put a Sci in an Assault Cruiser/Battle Cruiser. Hrmmm...
Put a Sci in a Warship/Heavy Destroyer...

I'm sure a Tac looking at it, wouldn't feel quite the same.

Put a Tac in a Destroyer/Escort/Raptor...
Put a Tac in a Warship/Heavy Destroyer. Hrmmm...

Course, there's always the Kirk.

Put a Kirk in an Assault Cruiser. Hrmmm...
Put a Kirk in a Warship/Heavy Destroyer...

To an extent, it almost feels like this type of ship is in response to when Player B has been telling Player A that Player A is doing it wrong.
Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder
Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethaen, M.Qin - Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,916
# 66
12-06-2012, 04:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
[...]
To an extent, it almost feels like this type of ship is in response to when Player B has been telling Player A that Player A is doing it wrong.
Or in other words, destroyers are sort of giving people what people wanted: A big fat ship with big damage potential.

Now, if they only repaired the beam weapons/beam tac powers complex...then those would have perfect stats.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,395
# 67
12-06-2012, 05:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
The Chel Grett's a Warship/Heavy Destroyer.

Vs. Chimera:
-Lt Sci +Lt Tac/-LCdr Uni +LCdr Sci
+1500 Hull/+0.1 Shield/-1 TR/-0.04 IMod/+5 Eng Power
+1 AFT Wep/+1 Sci Console/-100 Crew

Vs. Peghqu':
-Lt Sci +Lt Tac/-LCdr Uni +LCdr Sci
+1500 Hull/+0.167 Shield/-1 TR/-0.04 IMod/+5 Eng Power
+1 AFT Wep/+1 Sci Console/-100 Crew

It's not a case of looking for that point somewhere between a Cruiser and an Escort. It's looking for that point somewhere between a Battle Cruiser and a Destroyer.

The Warship/Heavy Destroyer type of ships...provide options.
Actually I think comparing it to the Chimera/Peghqu' explains a lot of what I mean...

If you run the Chimera as a Lt. Com. Tac and an Ens. Eng, you're really just in a slow escort. (Though the Chimera/Peghqu' have interesting toy consoles, so there's that). For all intents and purposes this is the same as the Breen layout.

Now if you run the Lt. Com. as an Eng, you start approaching something interesting. There's a player here on the boards who uses this setup for his vet ship and it's the only one I'd truly be scared of facing in the queues.

I guess I'm just saying don't be fooled by the size/superficial stats of many of STO's ships... call it a 'destroyer' if you like but I think you're going to find it'll fly exactly like a Joe Schmoe escort.

vids and guides and stuff

[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 9,340
# 68
12-06-2012, 06:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shimmerless View Post
I guess I'm just saying don't be fooled by the size/superficial stats of many of STO's ships... call it a 'destroyer' if you like but I think you're going to find it'll fly exactly like a Joe Schmoe escort.
I think it's akin to the Vesta discussions in various threads.

There are folks that approach the Vesta as an Escort.
There are folks that approach the Vesta as a RSV.

They have different views on the ship and what you can do with it.

It's not a case of calling it a Destroyer, because it's not a Destroyer. It's a Warship/Heavy Destroyer. It's not going to fly like a Destroyer (which falls more in with Escorts and Raptors). It's going to fly like a faster RSV (a faster MDSSV).

If I put on my Tac hat, it just lacks appeal. If I put on my Sci hat, it gives me another option to a RSV and a potentially better option to an Escort. If I put on my Eng hat, that's where it looks like it provides the best option.

Like I said before, consider the following and what you can pull off with playstyles:

Eng in Cruiser.
Eng in Escort.
Eng in Science.
Eng in Carrier.
Eng in Support.
Eng in BoP.
Eng in Raptor.
Eng in Battle Cruiser.
Eng in Destroyer.

Then look at an Eng in the Chel Grett.

They have their selfish survivability (really wish Cryptic would make Eng Space more like Eng Ground) - they have 6 Tac BOFF slots - and they can still offer up crosshealing with the 3 Sci slots (ST, TSS, HE).

For a lot of the complaint threads about Eng and Cruisers... well, the Heavy Destroyer line of ships appear to be Cryptic trying to appease them.

To me, it's an Eng boat. I'm sure others see it differently, and Hell - the build I did in the other thread's a Sci build (I like RSVs and came at it from a RSV PoV).
Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder
Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethaen, M.Qin - Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba
Survivor of Remus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 242
# 69
12-06-2012, 07:00 AM
I for one am scraping the DHC for this and I'm going single cannon/rear turt build. I've been using that on most of my sci/cruisers and its been working extremely well so with the set up this ship has I'm looking forwards to it
Captain
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 554
# 70
12-06-2012, 07:57 AM
-snip- -snip-

Last edited by burstorion; 12-06-2012 at 09:44 AM. Reason: Whoops...meant to use the quote and my post for a different thread!
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