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Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 236
I often wonder why P2W is such a problem, I mean in reality u can get any of the ships/consoles with dilithum. Feds can buy Theta cheap, Klinks can buy AMS cheap. I have 2 accounts with multiple toons which allows me to make a lot of Zen on a weekly basis, if u know how to watch the dil market there is no reason why anyone with a few toons can?t make 1000zen a week. So again, Why is it called P2W when all u have to do is play the game to get it?

What about starships? It is fairly easy to say that the bug is an OP ship, is it P2W? The Mobius Destroyer a Lobi purchased ship, Lobi comes from lock boxes that u buy keys to open, Is that P2W? How about some weapons? How many armors out there protect against disruptor and poloron together? I mean yes it sux getting AMSed or green goo Tric mined, but there are multiple ways to defend against all the P2W out there. The bug, granted, is a tuff as nails ship. It doesn't mean i scream op p2w when I get my ash blown away by one, I watch for him to make a mistake and exploit that or ask for team support.

I?m just saying more people are joining sto every day and many are leaving as fast as they come, because its general belief that P2W consoles are distasteful to use. Who wants to spend money on something they can?t use, especially when it is effective. I have been playing for years, it has taken that long to build a complete MKXII purple ship. I don?t expect a new player to have firepower to defeat me or the defense to withstand my attack power. If he AMS's when he is at 10% and Impulse Cells out of combat I applaud him! He did not lose a point for his team. I?m sure as hell not going to put my AMS on to return the favor.

Now, the people that are out there calling people down are what is really hurting pvp. I recruited a player, the other day, who was on the verge of quitting sto. I seen him post in zone how he was sick of the aholes in Q's calling him a noob because he was using AMS in a reg patrol escort, against the likes of bugs, fleet ships and the mighty recluse. IMO they were the noobs. They did not try to counter the AMS with ST, i believe ET works as well, they just in turn put there AMS on to counter back. Since then the young man has replaced his AMS with armor, has skilled differently and with the help of his fleet mates has upgraded his ship and weapon systems. He is now more balanced and having fun.

Then we have our revolutions, every month or so there is a new one. Tractor Beam Repulsers, Voldmort, Tric mines, it seems the Transphasic mine is the newest. Other than the vold, which I believe is fixed, there are so many counters to these powerful items and skills. TBR defenses include PH, Brace, Inertial Damper Skill and more I?m sure. TCM are very powerful but are also very weak and easy to defend against. Keep moving, FAW, TBR, PSW, Aceton Assimilators and I know this is a hard one, but, try targeting them with your weapons. Duh!! IMO Transphasic are the worst, it?s rare that a TCM will pop u through full Shields. These little nasty?s, if skilled right, don?t give a goose about your Shield. With so many out there, like myself on a Tac, we have very few hull heals. My best advice when dealing with Trannys is just like real life, get away from them fast. Before this becomes a how to thread, I?m going to stop myself. I just want to say to anyone new out there, if you are running P2W don?t feel bad when u get the gears. If you?re in a pug, say facing me in a premade, I would be disappointed if u didn?t use AMS against my team, as it help us train for those types of threats. I will be the first to admit I have used combos that I know are gonna gain me some negative feedback, but know that, I have done this because your build and your skills where so extraordinary, that, to quote the late great Captain Kirk "I Cheated" I would expect any good captain to do the same, as any good captain would have the skills to counter.

"Defense plays an equally important role as offense in Pvp" -Drkfrontier@pvp boot camp.

So in conclusion, I think it is unfair to treat players the way they are being treated. IMO, it is futile to try and change all of pvp by demoralizing a P2W user, as they are the bulk of pvp players. You are only hurting the game we all love so much. If you are a purist player, set rules for your matches. If u pug and u get P2W to death, don?t put the person down with words, switch your Bridge Officer at spawn and show him what real skill is about.

Good Luck And Have Out There
Kraven@Livin
Squadron Commander
Skull Squadron
http://www.guildportal.com/Guild.asp...&TabID=3999923
http://pvp-boot.camp.shivtr.com/
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 993
# 2
12-04-2012, 02:09 PM
The first passive in the PvP Reputation is Immunity to P2W
Division Hispana
www.divisionhispana.com
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,465
# 3
12-04-2012, 02:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by livinrtb View Post
I often wonder why P2W is such a problem, I mean in reality u can get any of the ships/consoles with dilithum. Feds can buy Theta cheap, Klinks can buy AMS cheap. I have 2 accounts with multiple toons which allows me to make a lot of Zen on a weekly basis, if u know how to watch the dil market there is no reason why anyone with a few toons can?t make 1000zen a week. So again, Why is it called P2W when all u have to do is play the game to get it?

What about starships? It is fairly easy to say that the bug is an OP ship, is it P2W? The Mobius Destroyer a Lobi purchased ship, Lobi comes from lock boxes that u buy keys to open, Is that P2W? How about some weapons? How many armors out there protect against disruptor and poloron together? I mean yes it sux getting AMSed or green goo Tric mined, but there are multiple ways to defend against all the P2W out there. The bug, granted, is a tuff as nails ship. It doesn't mean i scream op p2w when I get my ash blown away by one, I watch for him to make a mistake and exploit that or ask for team support.

I?m just saying more people are joining sto every day and many are leaving as fast as they come, because its general belief that P2W consoles are distasteful to use. Who wants to spend money on something they can?t use, especially when it is effective. I have been playing for years, it has taken that long to build a complete MKXII purple ship. I don?t expect a new player to have firepower to defeat me or the defense to withstand my attack power. If he AMS's when he is at 10% and Impulse Cells out of combat I applaud him! He did not lose a point for his team. I?m sure as hell not going to put my AMS on to return the favor.

Now, the people that are out there calling people down are what is really hurting pvp. I recruited a player, the other day, who was on the verge of quitting sto. I seen him post in zone how he was sick of the aholes in Q's calling him a noob because he was using AMS in a reg patrol escort, against the likes of bugs, fleet ships and the mighty recluse. IMO they were the noobs. They did not try to counter the AMS with ST, i believe ET works as well, they just in turn put there AMS on to counter back. Since then the young man has replaced his AMS with armor, has skilled differently and with the help of his fleet mates has upgraded his ship and weapon systems. He is now more balanced and having fun.

Then we have our revolutions, every month or so there is a new one. Tractor Beam Repulsers, Voldmort, Tric mines, it seems the Transphasic mine is the newest. Other than the vold, which I believe is fixed, there are so many counters to these powerful items and skills. TBR defenses include PH, Brace, Inertial Damper Skill and more I?m sure. TCM are very powerful but are also very weak and easy to defend against. Keep moving, FAW, TBR, PSW, Aceton Assimilators and I know this is a hard one, but, try targeting them with your weapons. Duh!! IMO Transphasic are the worst, it?s rare that a TCM will pop u through full Shields. These little nasty?s, if skilled right, don?t give a goose about your Shield. With so many out there, like myself on a Tac, we have very few hull heals. My best advice when dealing with Trannys is just like real life, get away from them fast. Before this becomes a how to thread, I?m going to stop myself. I just want to say to anyone new out there, if you are running P2W don?t feel bad when u get the gears. If you?re in a pug, say facing me in a premade, I would be disappointed if u didn?t use AMS against my team, as it help us train for those types of threats. I will be the first to admit I have used combos that I know are gonna gain me some negative feedback, but know that, I have done this because your build and your skills where so extraordinary, that, to quote the late great Captain Kirk "I Cheated" I would expect any good captain to do the same, as any good captain would have the skills to counter.

"Defense plays an equally important role as offense in Pvp" -Drkfrontier@pvp boot camp.

So in conclusion, I think it is unfair to treat players the way they are being treated. IMO, it is futile to try and change all of pvp by demoralizing a P2W user, as they are the bulk of pvp players. You are only hurting the game we all love so much. If you are a purist player, set rules for your matches. If u pug and u get P2W to death, don?t put the person down with words, switch your Bridge Officer at spawn and show him what real skill is about.

Good Luck And Have Out There
Kraven@Livin
Squadron Commander
Skull Squadron
http://www.guildportal.com/Guild.asp...&TabID=3999923
http://pvp-boot.camp.shivtr.com/
I replied to the same basic question you asked in another thread:

http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...1&postcount=80

Also, basic MkXII isn't what will seperate you from newer players. Your knowledge and skill applying your knowledge will. Using P2W vs someone who isn't (whether it's ships/consoles/etc) will hurt a player b/c they won't learn timing and counters.

For example, ET doesn't clear AMS only ST does, you were mistaken on that.

He shouldn't need that cell console to run. He should know hyper impulse engines w/evasives @ full engine power preset will do.

Further, if you're Fed side generally you should learn to cross repair/resist boost rather than running like KDF raiders are geared for.

Lastly, it's the lack of development resources invested into PvP that has caused people to run from PvP, it has nothing to do w/other players.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 12,429
# 4
12-04-2012, 02:16 PM
I was going to reply to your smaller post in the other thread, but I decided to let it go.

I'll post a shorter version of what I was going to say there...here:

How much time would you say it would take somebody with a few toons to make 1000 Zen a week?

Keep in mind, 1000 Zen is $10.

Divide that $10 by how long it takes.

Two hours a week? That's $5 an hour.
Four hours a week? That's $2.50 an hour.
Eight hours a week? That's $1.25 an hour.
Longer than eight hours a week?

Fed Min Wage in the US is $7.25.

Offer to mow the neighbor's lawn - be done in no time, buy the $10 in Zen and pocket the rest or buy even more...

Freelance some web stuff - etc, etc, etc, etc, etc.

"Working to get Zen in STO is going to have the worst returns."

It's a nifty thing to have happen as you're enjoying the game, but it's silly to work at it.

So tada... P2W.
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder - R'ebel, Romulan, Haakona
Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba - Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethean, M.Qin
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 236
# 5
12-04-2012, 03:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrkollins View Post
The first passive in the PvP Reputation is Immunity to P2W
Nice... that is awsome do u have a link for this info?
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 236
# 6
12-04-2012, 04:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
I was going to reply to your smaller post in the other thread, but I decided to let it go.

I'll post a shorter version of what I was going to say there...here:

How much time would you say it would take somebody with a few toons to make 1000 Zen a week?

Keep in mind, 1000 Zen is $10.

Divide that $10 by how long it takes.

Two hours a week? That's $5 an hour.
Four hours a week? That's $2.50 an hour.
Eight hours a week? That's $1.25 an hour.
Longer than eight hours a week?

Fed Min Wage in the US is $7.25.

Offer to mow the neighbor's lawn - be done in no time, buy the $10 in Zen and pocket the rest or buy even more...

Freelance some web stuff - etc, etc, etc, etc, etc.

"Working to get Zen in STO is going to have the worst returns."

It's a nifty thing to have happen as you're enjoying the game, but it's silly to work at it.

So tada... P2W.
im not saying it easy to do the grind it has taken me years to prefect my method but lets do some math

we will go with me as a veteran player with 3 toons each toon refines 8k=24k per day x7=168000
with my experience can make 1440dil every 6mins ergo it takes say 12hrs of grinding a week to make my cap of 168k now u need to keep in mind there is an exchange and its prices move up and down "buy low sell high" economics 101 i traded last night 168000 dil @111 for 1513 zen

now i didnt have to go shovle snow or mow a lawn i got to play the game i love with my friends and in my case my wife and i still made over my goal of 1k zen per week.

working to get zen in sto no, pays to play sto yes

thnx cryptic for a great game and thnx dancer my wife just told me to shovle the nabors walk before i can spend money to resubscribe for gold...lol
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 12,429
# 7
12-04-2012, 05:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by livinrtb View Post
there is an exchange and its prices move up and down "buy low sell high" economics 101 i traded last night 168000 dil @111 for 1513 zen
Not that long ago, days at that - there was better volatility to the market. I mean, seriously, the price would vary by +- ~10 in a day at set times.

Using artificial numbers for an example:

Time A = 120 DpZ
Time B = 130 DpZ

If you bought Zen when it was 120 DpZ and then sold it when it was 130 DpZ (using your 168000 Dil), you would turn the 168k Dil into 1400 Zen and turn the 1400 Zen into 182000 Dil. A 14k Dil profit simply by logging in twice a day.

Day 2: 197167 Dil
Day 3: 213597 Dil
Day 4: 231397 Dil
Day 5: 250680 Dil
Day 6: 271570 Dil
Day 7: 294201 Dil

If you cash out on Day 7/8 - you're looking at 2263 Zen. 863 Zen profit on a few minutes work each day.

If you've been playing for a while, you're going to have more profit.

Say you started with 500k Dil / 4167 Zen...

Day 1: 541667
Day 2: 586806
Day 3: 635707
Day 4: 688682
Day 5: 746072
Day 6: 808244
Day 7: 875999

If you cash out, you're looking at 6738 Zen... a profit of 2571 Zen. Again, just a few minutes work each day.

Sure, sometimes it would be a change <10, but sometimes it would be >10. In the end though, you could be pretty content - because you didn't have to farm the Dil nor did you have to spend the cash for the Zen. You were profiting off of the work and the money of others...

...but the market's crashed...meh. ~1-3 change isn't turning much profit unless you've got oodles and oodles and oodles...and, er well, oodles of capital to continue playing that particular game.
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder - R'ebel, Romulan, Haakona
Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba - Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethean, M.Qin
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,273
# 8
12-04-2012, 05:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by p2wsucks View Post

He shouldn't need that cell console to run. He should know hyper impulse engines w/evasives @ full engine power preset will do.

Further, if you're Fed side generally you should learn to cross repair/resist boost rather than running like KDF raiders are geared for.
Agreed on the first point, unless he's being with immobilizers/disables. . .Impulse Cell can help to escape then, as evasive will be useless. Of course, there's only so much the Impulse Cell can do

Definitely agreed on the 2nd part, especially concerning KDF raider. The BoPs are designed to be able to enter and exit combat quickly, hitting and running. That's why they're hard to tank in.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 236
# 9
12-04-2012, 05:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrkollins View Post
The first passive in the PvP Reputation is Immunity to P2W
do u gain pvp rep only from pvp?

if i dont have the immunity passive, will someone with the passive P2W ability effect me?

would the passive make things like enhanced plasma manifold useless?
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 236
# 10
12-04-2012, 06:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post

...but the market's crashed...meh. ~1-3 change isn't turning much profit unless you've got oodles and oodles and oodles...and, er well, oodles of capital to continue playing that particular game.
Now is the time to grind do a regular daliy grind and earn your capital while u only have to pay 111 i cash in before i log daliy...right now
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