Commander
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 263
# 101
11-26-2012, 10:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by echodarksided View Post
You describe it as an exploit, but forget that Crytic highlighted a Foundry mission that made fun of that "exploit" and added 50 fleet marks as a bonus reward to that "exploit" near the beginning of season six to encourage it's exploitation to fix the problem of a huge lack of fleet marks in the game.

These Foundry missions have tens of thousands of reviews. It's been a major part of the STO economy since season five. It has likely been the sole reason many small fleets got to Tier III.

The change won't hurt big or active fleets. It does kick casual/small fleets in the nuts.
It was an Exploit. I don't describe it as that it is a simple fact. As you said yourself it cheapened the whole foundry system. Yes they knew about, i don't denied that, but that doesn't mean they encouraged it, adding to the missions rewards does not translate to condoning exploitation. If anything making fun of it should help players release they shouldn't do it. I never used it, and I am very pleased it closed.

Small/Casual fleets have the same choices they had before, accept it will take them time to achieve their goals, or they can start looking around to merge or accepting they won't have tier 5 starbase.
Career Officer
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 953
# 102
11-26-2012, 10:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by maliusnight View Post
It was an Exploit. I don't describe it as that it is a simple fact. As you said yourself it cheapened the whole foundry system. Yes they knew about, i don't denied that, but that doesn't mean they encouraged it, adding to the missions rewards does not translate to condoning exploitation. If anything making fun of it should help players release they shouldn't do it. I never used it, and I am very pleased it closed.

Small/Casual fleets have the same choices they had before, accept it will take them time to achieve their goals, or they can start looking around to merge or accepting they won't have tier 5 starbase.
The thing is, it hasn't closed, one can (once they patch the fix) earn 50 Marks from a 10 minute 5 Man Gorn Minfield daily.

So you can be pleased as you want but it will still only take people a few minutes to get 50 marks.

I anticipate that the Foundry daily will go to one or two rather than three missions too.

So you may crow about it being an "exploit" but they've introduced a pretty easy "legal" method into the game now.

Last edited by thisisoverlord; 11-26-2012 at 10:46 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,292
# 103
11-26-2012, 11:40 AM
Low last night was 120 - now its back around 128 last I checked. But it is just vapour below 128 as far as I can see.

Burn baby burn Dilthium inferno!

Just in case you are too young to remember the song - or don't want to remember! There is only one person on the forums that I am sure was out there pimping to this in the 70's: Davyny(is that white guy on the keyboard -you? Man those suits hurt the eyes!!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_sY2rjxq6M
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,207
# 104
11-26-2012, 11:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thisisoverlord View Post
Now, previously I could earn;

50 Fleet Marks in 0.5 Minutes
8000 Dilith in 1 Hour.
Doffing 20 minutes.

Total 1 Hour 20 minutes (at most).
Your assumption is that most people could do that. My assumption is that the vast majority did not know how and that knowing how made you part of an upper class these changes were designed to curtail.
Career Officer
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 90
# 105 Omega Marks and Dil
11-26-2012, 12:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bareel View Post
They removed the easiest method to farm it this has been expected. Although I must admit a bit of surprise at the speed of the market drop.

That and no one has really unlocked the higher tiers of reputation yet so just what is all this dil being purchased being used for? I don't fully understand that part either. Especially because the first rep item I'm getting cost 500 marks and 15,000 dil and I gotta say if you spend the time to get that many marks I cannot see how the dil is an issue for you.
Well if you do elites you get 60 Omega Marks and 960 Dil per - so we need to do 9 in order to get the 500 Omega Marks which only give you 960x9=8640 Dil + 1,000 dil from 5 of the BNP. So the 15K Dil is not equivalient to the 500 Omega Marks. It is more equivalent to around 15 elite STFs.

15x60=900 OM
15x960=14400 DIL
15/5x1000=3000 DIL (from the BNP)
Little Extra Dil there, however you need the additional BNP in multiples of 5 to get you the DIL. (you could do it in 14 Elite STFs also, but might as well go for 15)

15 elites - not really looking forward to that many runs in a row, let along in a few days. And of course now you're not contributing any DIL to your Fleet Starbase (or Embassy). I think everyone was just building the starbases too quickly, or quicker than PWE had planned. Had to put a crutch (or several) in the way, so preoccupy individuals with Repution (helpy selfy) and preoccupy the Fleet with a flashy new Embassy.

Don't get me wrong I do like the new content, however I do see through the extra cost and thinning of the markets for everything is the price to pay for new content. And believe me, I think there is going to be much more content in the near future, so we feel we are getting an ROI
Ensign
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 9
# 106
11-26-2012, 12:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rezking View Post
...
When they end, and they will end eventually, that need for dilithium will drop off.
...
Cryptic will invent new dili sinks, thats for sure.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,593
# 107
11-26-2012, 12:24 PM
Simple answer is to SET a price and lock it
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,202
# 108
11-26-2012, 12:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stoleviathan99 View Post
Right now, this is a "Robin Hood" model of game balance and that won't fly as well as they think it will. Is the sky falling? Eh. Kindof. But very slowly. Not at the same rate as dilithium is declining but if this IS driven by game balance, it will result in Cryptic running up a budget deficit in their attempts to manage the game economy, which will force correction on their part. Possibly an unpleasant one for the operation of the game and the amount of capital they have access to.
I think you're completely overestimating the issue. People won't act stupidly, they often do but when money is involved everyone suddenly gets a brain. Paying customers won't be able to buy off every single item the game has to offer, they will have to play it too, I guess that's a part of the "evil plan". After all if you want them to stay they should be committed to the game.

Money will remain a shortcut but you won't be able to buy everything, they will also have to play the game regularly to get some dilithium for free. If the market reaches some people's limit then be it, they won't buy 200k worth of dil to completely equip their ship right now, they might buy some stuff and play for the rest.

There's no "robin hood" logic, I really think the current design is made to force people to play the game instead of just buying everything. It's very similar to the former STF reward drops, and I guess it's designed so that people actually play the game instead of buying zen, be happy one day with their new set and then get bored, see no difference because they're still unable to play a ship even with top endgame fear, and quit because they have nothing to do.

The dilithium market crashing is ultimately a positive change for the game, it means everyone is busy and that the money shortcuts aren't just "endgame gear in the cash store", which is the worst possible design ever. Sure, there are time gates, there are tiers, but requirements are so low that it's a complete joke and just a matter of time, so, ultimately, dilithium gathering is supposed to be what keeps us busy.

Those who were dil exchange addicts will complain but the vast majority of the server won't care, they'll keep progressing and buy minor shortcuts and will understand that their best interest is playing the game instead of using the credit card.

I trust Dan Stahl when he says that the exchange is insignificant compared to regular c-store purchases, and I guess that's why they are ready to sacrifice such a little income to keep people actually playing the game on the long term to make them willing to buy new ships, lockbox stuff - something you'll ignore if you only play 20 minutes a day.

Last edited by diogene0; 11-26-2012 at 12:29 PM.
Commander
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 263
# 109
11-26-2012, 01:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thisisoverlord View Post
The thing is, it hasn't closed, one can (once they patch the fix) earn 50 Marks from a 10 minute 5 Man Gorn Minfield daily.

So you can be pleased as you want but it will still only take people a few minutes to get 50 marks.

I anticipate that the Foundry daily will go to one or two rather than three missions too.

So you may crow about it being an "exploit" but they've introduced a pretty easy "legal" method into the game now.
You totally missed the point. The value isn't in marks, you can always get marks. The point is the dilithium, 2k dil for less then 5 mins of effort. That is the exploit. If you can get 2k for doing what amounts to nothing the system doesn't work. Dil must be earned through effort.

The mission is still running and thats great, and if they want to make it 1 20 mins mission thats totally cool with me. But cannot be 2k dil for not playing the game.

I hope everyone gets 50 Marks and 400 dil by spending 10 mins gorn mine field. Then 50 more and more dil from SB24. But to do it they must play an FA and so put forward effort.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 178
# 110
11-26-2012, 01:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkstocbr View Post
And Cryptic accountants are rejoicing in song as this forces players to buy more z-points to convert to Dilithium to make up for the lack of Dilithium being generated in the game.
Meh, I stopped buying Zen, I hope others did as well. Zero point buying Zen for the levels the exchange is at right now.

Jim
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