Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 204
# 401
12-08-2012, 08:24 PM
Hold your horses people it has not crashed, the Dilthium exchange is not like the Stock Market. No one has to place their Zen for sale for Dilthium the exchange; it is just at a low because Zen is not in high demand. All this means is that they are making content for everyone and not stuffing it in the C-Store having people pay for it.

Join date: January 2010
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 147
# 402
12-08-2012, 09:33 PM
Speaking as someone with some video game market experience.

At one point Dilithium had a value of about...300:1 zen. Those were the days for a lot of people (a few seasons back)

As of season 6 that value 140-170 depending on the time what was available and the general need. With season 7's near abortion level of a debut zen has fallen sharply. I'ts lost nearly 50% of its value. And has lost more depending on what end of the market you play. The purchasing power of Zen has flat out CRASHED (Go ask an economist if you dont believe me.) and we haven't seen a bottom to this market yet. Cryptic may not be willing to take measures to fix this market situation but i think will be FORCED to in the near to moderate future. I don't believe they'll be able to tolerate 50:1 dilith->zen but that's where i predicted weeks ago that's where it was going to be when everything shook out.

At this point its a dilithium player's market in terms of Dilithium -> Zen. At the moment a 3000 Zen item would equate to 300k dilithium. ONE fleet special project and less than one Tier 3+ Fleet project. Not including personal reputation issues. And that's what's going to keep the price falling in my opinion. Dilithium has become needed for far too much without a corresponding increase in available sources (initially) And no high VALUE sources (1500+) to drain from. Players aren't going to be able to and aren't willing to in most cases grind for dilithium all day when it is linked to EVERYTHING. They'll take what they can get sure but the more of a chore it feels like the less they'll play and the more the ones who can will use ZEN to pick up the slack. And that is why the prices are falling so much. And that's why i think we haven't seen the bottom of this yet. There are a number of factors that could stop the bleeding or change the number in an upward direction some temp some permanent. If permanent ones aren't enacted Cryptic and PWE needs to brace itself for the bottom end of the dilithium market. The minimum is 25. I don't think it gets quite THAT low but i said 50 for a reason. PWE doesnt need this Cryptic wont survive it long term. They have 3 more seasons on the drawing boards already that much is clear. But i dont know if they'll get to them if the dilithium market stays at historically low levels.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,292
# 403
12-08-2012, 09:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by outlaw51825 View Post
Speaking as someone with some video game market experience.

At one point Dilithium had a value of about...300:1 zen. Those were the days for a lot of people (a few seasons back)

As of season 6 that value 140-170 depending on the time what was available and the general need. With season 7's near abortion level of a debut zen has fallen sharply. I'ts lost nearly 50% of its value. And has lost more depending on what end of the market you play. The purchasing power of Zen has flat out CRASHED (Go ask an economist if you dont believe me.) and we haven't seen a bottom to this market yet. Cryptic may not be willing to take measures to fix this market situation but i think will be FORCED to in the near to moderate future. I don't believe they'll be able to tolerate 50:1 dilith->zen but that's where i predicted weeks ago that's where it was going to be when everything shook out.

At this point its a dilithium player's market in terms of Dilithium -> Zen. At the moment a 3000 Zen item would equate to 300k dilithium. ONE fleet special project and less than one Tier 3+ Fleet project. Not including personal reputation issues. And that's what's going to keep the price falling in my opinion. Dilithium has become needed for far too much without a corresponding increase in available sources (initially) And no high VALUE sources (1500+) to drain from. Players aren't going to be able to and aren't willing to in most cases grind for dilithium all day when it is linked to EVERYTHING. They'll take what they can get sure but the more of a chore it feels like the less they'll play and the more the ones who can will use ZEN to pick up the slack. And that is why the prices are falling so much. And that's why i think we haven't seen the bottom of this yet. There are a number of factors that could stop the bleeding or change the number in an upward direction some temp some permanent. If permanent ones aren't enacted Cryptic and PWE needs to brace itself for the bottom end of the dilithium market. The minimum is 25. I don't think it gets quite THAT low but i said 50 for a reason. PWE doesnt need this Cryptic wont survive it long term. They have 3 more seasons on the drawing boards already that much is clear. But i dont know if they'll get to them if the dilithium market stays at historically low levels.
All I know for a FACT is that in my fleet dilthium condibution has STOPPED - none in over a week - projects just sitting there.

I suspect It's not the only one, and I just can't see many people spending real dollars - like $30-50 which people dropped every months before s-7 on starbases - to continue aat sub -100/1

After Christmas when consumer spending takes a nose dive - especially when the first credit card bills of the new year come in the mail - I expect purchases of Zen with Real dollars to come to a virtual halt.

What will happen then?
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 67
# 404
12-08-2012, 10:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by born2bwild1 View Post
What will happen then?
Dillithium Stimulus Package

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STO / Cryptic member since 2009 (mavgeek)
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 54
# 405
12-08-2012, 10:26 PM
Quick question...

What is so great about starbases and dumping all this dilithium into them? I've seen the ships & weapons and fail to see how an extra 3k hull, 1 extra console slot, an additional 50 dps, etc. makes any meaningful difference regarding game play.

I've played plenty of MMOs and understand people who want to min/max, but in my experience the only facet that concept really benefits is PvP which is pretty much non-existent in STO.

The new reputation system & associated items cost dilithium, but from what information I have gathered so far it looks like it will take around maybe 500k to outfit your toon across the board when it hits lvl 5. If you have 3-4 Klingon alts and want to go at it for a week or two then it is totally easy to generate these amounts.

Just trying to figure out why people are in such a tizzy over dilithium when Zen still costs real money at the end of the day.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,020
# 406
12-08-2012, 11:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by joker8me View Post
Quick question...

What is so great about starbases and dumping all this dilithium into them? I've seen the ships & weapons and fail to see how an extra 3k hull, 1 extra console slot, an additional 50 dps, etc. makes any meaningful difference regarding game play.
They're not - they're really just fluff since they don't add any tangible benefit to the game outside of incrementally better ships and an easy way to obtain Mk XII weapons and equipment - and this is exactly the reason some fleets are stalling because their members aren't getting anything tangible in return for their time and money.

Quote:
Originally Posted by joker8me View Post
The new reputation system & associated items cost dilithium, but from what information I have gathered so far it looks like it will take around maybe 500k to outfit your toon across the board when it hits lvl 5. If you have 3-4 Klingon alts and want to go at it for a week or two then it is totally easy to generate these amounts.
That's exactly it though - you have to make a go of it - you have to work for it. Pre-Season 7, I could do a quick clicky, maybe do B'tran or the Deferi missions, a little doffing and then run some STFs with my friends in the STF community.

That community's evaporated in the wake of the S7 changes, clickies are gone, B'tran's gone and now I need Rom Marks too to level up the Rep system. I'm spending much more time just getting what I need to progress than I am playing the game - by the time I've finished doffing for Contraband, running the Tau Dewa daily patrol and doing a mandatory STF on my three characters I don't actually feel like doing anything else - and I don't feel like I've been playing STO - all that feels like work.

And what does it get me? Just about my 8k Dilithium (depending on the Doff mission payouts). Prior to S7 I was never short of Dilithium, now I am but whilst the changes may not seem that drastic to some, they've impacted me greatly changing activities that used to be fun into something that feels like work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by joker8me View Post
Just trying to figure out why people are in such a tizzy over dilithium when Zen still costs real money at the end of the day.
Because they want to play the content they want to play and earn Dilithium - the only reason I go to Tau Dewa is to grind Rom Marks (and it is a grind) and I hate every second of it but I want to get through the Rep System so I don't have a choice do I?
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Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,593
# 407
12-09-2012, 02:10 AM
All of this is why it should be fixed and regulated

Right now suppose I wanted to pay 170 dilth for Zen
I CAN'T the so called free market makes me pay 106
this is WRONG
Career Officer
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 949
# 408
12-09-2012, 02:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by skyranger1414 View Post
Clearly someone is buying up Zen at 103-104 Dil, and even less for brief periods of time.

I think that most people complaining do so because they suddenly find themselves on the other side of the value/cost curve. I was expecting Cryptic to step in but it really looks like they're going to keep their hands off and let it find a new balance with the current Dil market input/outputs.
If you look at the statistics provided the amount of Zen on sale is down, so clearly whilst there will always be a percentage that have the money to sell Zen at any price, the drop in the value of Zen is having a profound effect on the volume of Zen being traded.

The hilarity is you're already wrong in your statement that "they're going keep their hands off" they've already interfered twice to stabilize the exchange and have failed. Imagine what the value of Zen would have been if they had continued to offer no dilithium reward for STF's , we would be looking at sub 80 prices by now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by weylandjuarez View Post

That community's evaporated in the wake of the S7 changes, clickies are gone, B'tran's gone and now I need Rom Marks too to level up the Rep system. I'm spending much more time just getting what I need to progress than I am playing the game - by the time I've finished doffing for Contraband, running the Tau Dewa daily patrol and doing a mandatory STF on my three characters I don't actually feel like doing anything else - and I don't feel like I've been playing STO - all that feels like work.

And what does it get me? Just about my 8k Dilithium (depending on the Doff mission payouts). Prior to S7 I was never short of Dilithium, now I am but whilst the changes may not seem that drastic to some, they've impacted me greatly changing activities that used to be fun into something that feels like work.



Because they want to play the content they want to play and earn Dilithium - the only reason I go to Tau Dewa is to grind Rom Marks (and it is a grind) and I hate every second of it but I want to get through the Rep System so I don't have a choice do I?
Once again couldn't agree more that's what my experience of this game has become and often I log in with a sense of determination than a sense of fun and the hope in the back of my mind that S8 will brings something good.

Last edited by thisisoverlord; 12-09-2012 at 02:27 AM.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 101
# 409
12-09-2012, 02:51 AM
Season 7 added a massive amount of grind to the game.

Now in a month or so once people start maxing out the reputation system, we may see more dilithium start to appear again as more people convert OM/BNP directly to dilithium, but I suspect this won't happen? Why?

While the grind isn't perminant (especially for OM/RM) it was enough that I couldn't maintain the grind at pre Season 7 levels. (4 "main" characters, solo starbase, SFT gear, DoFf's etc) What it forced me to do was evaluate what was important to me. As it turned out, a lot of the content wasn't important to me, so I scaled back my playing. My solo SB is moving slowly as FM's are harder to come by. I simply made a deal with a larger fleet for shipyard access and temporarily left my current fleet - result is FM's aren't a big deal any more. RM's...might look at them in a few months, but I don't have the time. so RM's are no longer a big deal.

By making me evaluate what is important to me (my time) the game effectively made the entire contents of the Zen store worthless to me and once the genie is out the bottle, it made me start evaluating other areas of the game. My time/entertainment is now worth more to me than a costume pack or a new OP ship. So while in a month i'll be rolling in Dilithium again, I just won't have any need for Zen or the need to grind massive stockpiles.

Season 6 - "I need to log on and progress lots of things"
Season 7 - "I'll maybe log on later after doing something else"
Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 289
# 410
12-09-2012, 03:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rezking View Post
If everyone is sitting on a stockplie, convert it to Zen NOW.
These projects aren't going to last forever.
When they end, and they will end eventually, that need for dilithium will drop off.
That won't happen for at least one more month. So people should not convert now, but instead wait for the price to continue to drop, as the Tier 5 reputations, fleetbases and embassies will increase the demand for Dilithium even more.

Personally, I'm very thankful for the price dropping like a stone, as i'm currently saving up for a Vesta. The less grind needed, the better.
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