Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,292
# 881
01-22-2013, 06:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by admiralandy View Post
As a lot of dil available content also includes fleet marks, then id say that you can work on getting the dil for yourself and donate the otherwise useless fleet marks. big dig, daily, gorn minefield, foundry etc, etc.... So your still doing the work for yourself, just utilising a nice side bonus.

Please don't feel self conscious that I was replying to your comments. I would point out I wasn't inferreing that you were a leach, words used just a few posts previous btw and in no way my veiw. I also doubt your in anyway unique within the STO gaming community, I would flatly state you are not. I'm not telling you what you should do, merely an effect within a fleet of such a model of behavior.

It is as stated by someone a model done by cryptic, its the inbalance and the lockdown approach from the Devs that is angering people. It has been clear with examples of the bartender and chef fleet projects that starbase design seems to have been done without an eye on the way the game works, or the way people interact with it. Those errors have been corrected, others remain.

I would also ask, the last time you had a fleet upgrade project such as shipyard, what stalled, the fleet credits, or the dil, or did someone 'have to' buy the dil to get it moving?


As for that person who works, what if they with their limited and one might therefore say even more valuable game time are still donating dilithium to the fleet. I work and I donate dil to the fleet projects, even on days when its clear who isn't. Whose making the greater sacrifice?
This will be my last response on this matter because this thread is taking a negative turn. In the Fleet I was talking about it is almost impossible to donate anything as the projects fill up as soon as they open. However, prior to the most recent changes to the game most fleet marks had to be earned without any dilthium rewards. I actually don't do any of the things that you mentioned. With 400+ active members - being ABLE to contribute is this fleets problem - and we just recently got rid of people who have not been active since Nov - to make room for some new people as the 500 cap keeps getting hit. Of course most fleets don't have this "problem".

My personal belief is that the whole starbase thing is a crock - a shame that keeps content locked behind a system where access is gated. So now everyone in the game if they want certain content must be in a fleet and the fleet must be at a certain level of starbase construction. People are talking about the elite fleet weapons - well I can tell you our base will have it soon - but most people in the game will never have it or take a long time - only super fleets will make it to Tier 5 - and then you have 300+ people who will want to gear up first before anyone outside the fleet could be invited to "buy" and leave. That makes the game a closed imbalance system.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 182
# 882
01-22-2013, 06:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by born2bwild1 View Post
This will be my last response on this matter because this thread is taking a negative turn. In the Fleet I was talking about it is almost impossible to donate anything as the projects fill up as soon as they open. However, prior to the most recent changes to the game most fleet marks had to be earned without any dilthium rewards. I actually don't do any of the things that you mentioned. With 400+ active members - being ABLE to contribute is this fleets problem - and we just recently got rid of people who have not been active since Nov - to make room for some new people as the 500 cap keeps getting hit. Of course most fleets don't have this "problem".

My personal belief is that the whole starbase thing is a crock - a shame that keeps content locked behind a system where access is gated. So now everyone in the game if they want certain content must be in a fleet and the fleet must be at a certain level of starbase construction. People are talking about the elite fleet weapons - well I can tell you our base will have it soon - but most people in the game will never have it or take a long time - only super fleets will make it to Tier 5 - and then you have 300+ people who will want to gear up first before anyone outside the fleet could be invited to "buy" and leave. That makes the game a closed imbalance system.
There really wasn't as I kept trying to say a need for a war of words, and you've reiterated the point I was putting forward. The bad starbase design already clearly highlighted re Chefs n Bartenders, and the excellent phrase, gated system.

Too gated, dilithium isn't something that should be an issue, it is because of the weight design has given it with both personal reputation projects and requirements for fleet holdings for those pursuing that. Its bad design to build into a system that is going to go from challenge to frustration. Something Cryptic are being slow to respond to.

The price of dilithium is merely a symptom not the cause of the animosity arising around dilithium and the conversion rates. I don't recall dilithium being a subject of such hot debate prior to 3 months ago, with the exception of the fleet vanity projects being overcosted. Continually these are refered to as nice but not for that much dil, every week they come out.

I'm also aware of the big fleet and provisioning problems that I've heard from others.

As I also said, and as you stated, most fleets probably wont make it to top tier, yes how many fledging fleets have died because of this.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 152
# 883
01-22-2013, 07:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chalpen View Post
lol. what?

It isn't? Are they not publicly traded? Do they not have shareholders?
Cryptic isn't.

But Perfect World, Co. is.

PWE is the N. American branch of PWC. Cryptic not having a ton of stuff in the c-store is less important than the money from lock-boxes.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,292
# 884
01-23-2013, 09:50 PM
Well Dithium got back up into the low 90's for a bit with the dominion lock box news - hovering around there now.

Not much of a strong move.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,060
# 885
01-24-2013, 06:08 AM
Noooo! The economy is broken! I have keys to gather for my inevitable winning of the latest super ship and I can't do it with the Zen costs at such a painful rate!
_________________
Nebula coffee is the best coffee
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,239
# 886
01-24-2013, 06:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by born2bwild1 View Post
With 400+ active members - being ABLE to contribute is this fleets problem
When my fleet hit this problem several ideas were thrown out there :

- out of 3 projects , only 2 were to be allowed to contribute to by "the whales" (players w/lots of materials) , and one was for "the small fish" .

- create an alt. fleet / starbase , to which you move toons that need FC .
no toon that has more than 500.000-1 mil FC is allowed to join .

- befriend a small fleet and temporarily move your toon that needs FC there and contribute there . It's a two sided win .
(with the knowladge of your and their fleet leaders)

Of the 3 ideas , we eventually went with the first , and it sort of works for us (we don't have 500 members tho) -- and for example , one of our biggest "whales" has recently quit donating to the Fed side in order to donate to our slower KDF base .


Quote:
My personal belief is that the whole starbase thing is a crock
Well maybe the idea is not that , but much of the implementation & the lack of individuality & functionality certainly leave much to be desired .


Quote:
only super fleets will make it to Tier 5 - and then you have 300+ people who will want to gear up first
I won't be clamoring to be first in line 4 stuff .
Not as long as my current stuff is more than adequate , and no new content & serious challenge is in sight .

ISE for the 2000th time , now w/better torp's ? Oh boy , I'm excited now ... .
STO will be out of Beta in another 2-4 years ???
... you know after another 3 story arc remasters, crafting revamp, skills revamp, PVP upgrade ...
*note : the 2-4 year guesstimate came out of comparing Cryptic's Dev speed and that of a snail . Sadly the snail won .
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,292
# 887
01-24-2013, 06:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by aelfwin1 View Post

I won't be clamoring to be first in line 4 stuff .
Not as long as my current stuff is more than adequate , and no new content & serious challenge is in sight .

ISE for the 2000th time , now w/better torp's ? Oh boy , I'm excited now ... .
But imagine the possiblities this system offers people - after spending more of their life grinding and paying rediculous sums of dilthium/ec/$$$/zen - you will be able to spent more money and resources to buy that gear which will let you finish ISE 20 seconds faster than had you not wasted 400 hours on the fleet system!!

so in another 1600 ISE you could see a positive time benfit to the starbase system!!!

No that's something to work hard for!
Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 307
# 888
01-24-2013, 07:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by born2bwild1 View Post
But imagine the possiblities this system offers people - after spending more of their life grinding and paying rediculous sums of dilthium/ec/$$$/zen - you will be able to spent more money and resources to buy that gear which will let you finish ISE 20 seconds faster than had you not wasted 400 hours on the fleet system!!

so in another 1600 ISE you could see a positive time benfit to the starbase system!!!

No that's something to work hard for!
Well, there's a common fault with gamers that also is the crux of F2P games profitability:
Impatience.

Must have best gear possible; now.
Nobody is going to fault people for it, but it's not the most efficient route to take in most games; and afterwards you can't complain if the rewards for further effort are minimal; it's exactly what you were working on.

Personally, I really try to moderate myself in that regard (and I gotta say it's not always easy) but I didn't get a noteworthy amount of Advanced fleet weapons, for example - or exceptionally good weapons in general on some of the younger chars - yet, simply because I know in the end I'm getting Elite fleet weapons (or whatever the character is planning on).
Same goes for my tactical consoles. I can stick with a 24% for a long time before moving directly to a 30% console, instead of using each iteration in turn when I have the chance.

People only have themselves to blame if they grinded too much because of their impatience.
So what if it takes your fleet 3 months from T4 to T5? You don't have to buy that dilithium.

He's dead, Jim.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,202
# 889
01-24-2013, 07:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stardestroyer001 View Post
It's not Cryptic's problem for having nothing in the store left for you. Go take your ZEN and turn it into dil or EC, then get anything else you can get in the game. Problem solved.
He can also buy keys.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lolimpicard View Post
Personally, I really try to moderate myself in that regard (and I gotta say it's not always easy) but I didn't get a noteworthy amount of Advanced fleet weapons, for example - or exceptionally good weapons in general on some of the younger chars - yet, simply because I know in the end I'm getting Elite fleet weapons (or whatever the character is planning on).
Same goes for my tactical consoles. I can stick with a 24% for a long time before moving directly to a 30% console, instead of using each iteration in turn when I have the chance..
Ditto, I'm still using Mk XI blue consoles on most of my ships, with the exception of my main who has two blue Mk XII plasma consoles bought before season 7 at a symbolic price. Instead i spend my ****loads of EC on lockbox ships and stuff. I won't bother with fleet gear too, even if i have one fleet pulsewave somewhere on a random char. Anyway, the lockbox gear with dual procs you get on the exchange is far better than the fleet one.

When we learnt more about season 7 on tribble, i also decided to save all my dilithium so that i could buy the reputation sets and items i wanted. Now i've been able to buy Mk XII maco sets for my kdfs (space and ground), a couple of borg sets, space and ground HG sets for my Feds, a full rommie plaspa weapons set and all my toons are happy with their new toys while i've bought absolutely no dil from the dilithium exchange.

Still, i'm gold, which means i'm not reluctant to get my credit card some fresh air when i think it's worth it, and in-game currencies aren't on the list. I would add being unable to save ressources as the flaw of most players, along with impatience.

To get that rich, i've been saving ECs for months to be able to make significant, highly rewarding but speculative and risky deals, and now i have all i want, even if i still think purple consoles are a pure waste of ressources. I found the right balance between what i really need and what i want, and if people were able to do that there would be no issue regarding dilithium and zen expenses.

Last edited by diogene0; 01-24-2013 at 07:56 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 518
# 890
01-24-2013, 07:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by born2bwild1 View Post
a shame that keeps content locked behind a system where access is gated.
I see this every so often but I have yet to see anyone list any actual content that the Starbase unlocks.

Weapons are not content, they're weapons. The Romulan rep system actually does have content locked away, but the Starbase system does not. So the only crock is this idea that somehow people are being punished because they won't get their starbase to T5 in the next 2 months.

As far as the weapons and other toys go. This is not any thing new. Such things have always been gated. You have be X level, and have to had done Y activities to stand a chance at getting some of these items. STO is hardly something new this way.
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:25 PM.