Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 955
# 11
12-07-2012, 02:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by defalus View Post
Well obviously the construction of a starship would be alot more complex than build something that looks like something old and whop a load of new computers in it and make it go.. unless of course you're a Pakled.

ST is a sci-fi universe with advanced technology, are you going to say that in this universe they (engineers of whatever race) would be incapable of building a ship that looks like an older model ship and they would be unable to design componants to make it function on a level suitable for its intended purpose?

With the tecnology and scientific know how in the ST universe I don't see how this could not be possible. If Starfleet needs newer and better ships they can build them, that doesn't mean they have to throw out older designs if they can still make them work to a satisfactory level.
Shipyards and factories function by being able to efficiently produce components necessary for mass-produced products. If, today, you wanted to build a P-51 Mustang, it would have to be a custom job -- the infrastructure just doesn't exist for making those parts anymore. It's completely prohibitive except from a recreational standpoint, something a hobbyist with a lot of time, money, and resources on their hands might do.

It's the same thing in Trek. They can replicate some things, but they've never been shown to have the ability to replicate starship components on a huge scale, instead building starships in a more realistic manner. They mine the ore, refine it, shape the metals, and assemble it into a starship. That means, to build multiple starships of the same class, they'd have a shipyard made to build those components in that shape. You can't just re-arrange Defiant-class components into an NX-class, as the hull geometry is completely different.

Simply put, the most efficient way to make something is to use the infrastructure you already have. Realistically, it's much easier and much faster to create a starhip you're already equipped to make than it is to create an older, obsolete design with newer parts. Re-creating an older starship requires the same level of R&D as creating a new starship, since you've got to figure out how to re-arrange newer technology into an older design.

The most basic problem with using the NX design is the warp core -- Starships for a couple hundred years at this point have been using a vertical matter-antimatter chamber design that runs the height of multiple decks. The NX design, on the other hand, using a horizontal design. Because of the presence of gravity plating, it means that you would then need to design the decks around available access and maintenance points for a vertically-designed warp core to lay horizontal, while still being allowed complete 380-degree access to it. Or, you could design an entirely new warp core to power an obsolete design, which is a huge task in and of itself for warp core engineers.

Could they do it? Yes, they could probably make one or two, as a hobby and/or experiment. It's entirely possible to make it. Is it an efficient use of wartime resources, though? Absolutely not.

Still, as I said, this is just a game, and Cryptic hasn't ever really pretended otherwise. It's not very realistic for Vice Admirals to be beaming down to planets with rifles for every away mission, or for Starfleet Uniforms to be pink cutoff tops and mini-skirts, nor would Starfleet Officers willingly be transported to a wonderland made by Q and go around racing and fighting snowmen. Starfleet Officers would be incredibly dubious of such a place, and demand Q leave ESD. Cryptic treats it like a game, not a serious entry in Star Trek lore, and we should recognize this.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,289
# 12
12-07-2012, 03:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by princedimwit View Post
Why would the designers make it the 25th century where Enterprise-era ships are mixed in with Nemesis-era ships? The Klingon Raptor along with the Negh'var and Vor'cha. The Enterprise-era Romulan birds of prey along with Valdore type and the Scimitar. Weird.

One of my biggest pet peeves about the game.
Like said above, the NX is a replica called the Utopia class.

Klingons, tend to use starships for hundreds of years. For example, Kor's ship the I.K.S. Klothos was a D5 Cruiser (TAS can be explained it was refitted to a D7), and D5s were Enterprise-Era ships. In the 26th Century, we saw a Vor'cha in the Battle of Procyon (which could be a ship still in service or in STO, transported into the future).

And there is the K'Tinga, we saw the ship last from the Enterprise Era all the way to the DS9 Era (well over 200 years). (Really the K'tinga in Enterprise was supposed to be the D4, but they didn't have time to make a proper model and reused the ones they used in the other Trek shows. So until a remastery, this is how we have to intrepret it).

Also, like mentioned above, the Klingons revisited the design. While it's an old design, its a new ship.


With the Romulans, who knows. Their BoP's could be brought out of mothballs (pressed into service due to the chaos in the Romulan Empire), or their shipyards are still making ships with that same design.
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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 130
# 13
12-07-2012, 03:05 PM
thratch: from NX description; "After Starfleet starships were converted to a modular design, a group from the Starfleet Corps of Engineers working at Utopia Planitia wondered if vessels from the Federation's past could be constructed in this manner. Working with Federation historian Geoffrey Pacelli, the SCE officers chose the famed NX Class for reconstruction. The NX Class Starship Replica sports the classic look of Earth's starships from the 22nd century, but has been updated with modern technology to meet current Starfleet specifications..."

All those Federation replica ships you see flying around are modular designs.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 955
# 14
12-07-2012, 03:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexhurlbut View Post
thratch: from NX description; "After Starfleet starships were converted to a modular design, a group from the Starfleet Corps of Engineers working at Utopia Planitia wondered if vessels from the Federation's past could be constructed in this manner. Working with Federation historian Geoffrey Pacelli, the SCE officers chose the famed NX Class for reconstruction. The NX Class Starship Replica sports the classic look of Earth's starships from the 22nd century, but has been updated with modern technology to meet current Starfleet specifications..."

All those Federation replica ships you see flying around are modular designs.
What's modular about the NX/Utopia class? It looks nothing like any other ship in service. Its nacelles sure aren't modular, so what about its warp coils? What class of ship does it share warp coils with? Or its bridge unit? Or its saucer shape? Impulse engines? What other ship in Starfleet uses the same warp core as the NX? Obviously, nothing about the NX as it is in-game looks like it's modular with anything else in service.

That's just Cryptic's reason. They had to make up a reason to put it into the game. They want to stuff as many ships as they can so players will buy them.

That doesn't mean it's very realistic, or that it makes sense. You have to accept that. It's just a game, not a representation of how Star Trek really works.

The closest thing to modular design in all of Star Trek is the Reliant and the Constitution-Refit, and possibly the Centaur and Excelsior (although scale issues there make it more dubious). Every other class is way too different to be modular.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 130
# 15
12-07-2012, 03:18 PM
*sigh* The point was that all the components INSIDE the replica ships are the same are used by OTHER "modular" ships in the Starfleet. It's the OUTSIDE that look different, it's just literately a "skin".
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,118
# 16
12-07-2012, 03:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thratch1 View Post
They can replicate some things, but they've never been shown to have the ability to replicate starship components on a huge scale, instead building starships in a more realistic manner. They mine the ore, refine it, shape the metals, and assemble it into a starship. That means, to build multiple starships of the same class, they'd have a shipyard made to build those components in that shape. You can't just re-arrange Defiant-class components into an NX-class, as the hull geometry is completely different.
Well that taught me a few things I never knew. I always imagined Starfleet could just use massive industrial replicators to make what they needed. Quite the eye opener for me in regards to Trek tech.
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 955
# 17
12-07-2012, 03:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexhurlbut View Post
*sigh* The point was that all the components INSIDE the replica ships are the same are used by OTHER "modular" ships in the Starfleet. It's the OUTSIDE that look different, it's just literately a "skin".
That makes zero sense. What systems are modular, then? The computer core? The power conduits inside the bulkheads? Essentially, the least complicated systems? The systems that would be need to be made from scratch are the biggest, most complicated ones -- the impulse engines, the warp nacelles, the warp core, the deflector array. These are the most complicated devices on the ship, and are completely integrated with the ship -- aka, not modular in the least.

Quote:
Originally Posted by defalus View Post
Well that taught me a few things I never knew. I always imagined Starfleet could just use massive industrial replicators to make what they needed. Quite the eye opener for me in regards to Trek tech.
They've never really been consistent with the abilities of the replicators in the show, but they have shown a need for war assets during the Dominion war, including shipyards, mining operations for specific types of ore, and an inability to replicate a lot of things (mostly for plot reasons, as the show would be boring if they could replicate anything and everything they'd ever want).

Last edited by thratch1; 12-07-2012 at 03:26 PM.
Republic Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,068
# 18
12-07-2012, 03:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by defalus View Post
Well that taught me a few things I never knew. I always imagined Starfleet could just use massive industrial replicators to make what they needed. Quite the eye opener for me in regards to Trek tech.
Maybe in TOS they could not, but pretty sure TNG they could replicate anything for old ships...would explain how they kept all those Miranda , and Excelsior running in DS9.


Quote:
Originally Posted by thratch1 View Post


They've never really been consistent with the abilities of the replicators in the show, but they have shown a need for war assets during the Dominion war, including shipyards, mining operations for specific types of ore, and an inability to replicate a lot of things (mostly for plot reasons, as the show would be boring if they could replicate anything and everything they'd ever want).

Most of those plots for for fuel like Deuterium, and Dilithium that are known to be unreplicable



Last edited by neoakiraii; 12-07-2012 at 03:30 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 565
# 19
12-07-2012, 03:27 PM
Starships in the Startrek universe do not make any sense at all. In a realistic scifi universe all starships would look the same, just like in our era aircrafts look the same.

For instance the Romulan warbird. It has two wings. What is the reason for these huge structures? They have no function at all. Or the moving wings of the klingon bird of prey? I don't see any point in these.

Take the Borg cube. Everything in the universe is spheric, yet the most technologic advanced race makes a cubic space ship, yeah, right.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 366
# 20
12-07-2012, 03:28 PM
It's nothing new, the Miranda Class (tutorial/lieutenant level ship) was used in the shows and movies from the 23rd century (Wrath of Khan) through to the dominion wars in the 24th century and featured in many famous battles including the Battle of Wolf 359.

That's nearly 200 years of loyal service from a single ship design.
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