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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 633
As a result of an ongoing discussion I decided to get busy doing some tests on how consoles, skills points and weapons power interact with each other and how all this interacts with tac buffs. The tests where all done with energy weapons, so the results may be different for projectile weapons, i'd need to check.


1. All tac buffs, (plus APO), are straight multipliers on damage after all other effects. If several are active then the modifiers stack additively with each other and the final total is the multiplier.

2. Consoles only provide half the listed boost to damage and this boost is applied to the weapons base damage before skill point bonuses are added on.

3. Skill point bonuses are then added on separately of this total, in effect consoles neither benefit from skill points, nor themselves benefit skill points.

4. Weapons power is a multiplier on the total damage after additions from consoles and skill points. It is not additive with consoles as many have claimed as the benefit from consoles, (in percentage terms), remains constant from 50 power to 125 power. However at power settings below 50 the Console bonus does in fact begin to decrease. I have no concrete theory for this behavior except to suggest that an entirely separate and different formulae is used at below 50 power than at above 50 power and that at these setting the consoles interact differently with weapons power.


5. Tactical Fleet's listed damage modifier is wrong. It's actually 17.5%, not 30%.


So here's the current actual formulae for damage at weapons power setting of 50 or more:


(B + (B*S) + (B*(C/2)))*(0.02*(W-50)))*(APA+TF+APO+GDF)

Where:

B = Base weapons damage without Skill or any other modifiers.

S= Total benefit from skill points as decimal, (0.5 at 9 point sin all relevant skills).

C = Total console benefit as a decimal, (1.5 for 5 MkXII purple consoles).

W= Weapons Power

APA = Attack Pattern Alpha (0.5 at 100 Attack pattern skill)

TF = Tactical Fleet (0.175)

APO = Attack Pattern Omega (0.25 at 100 attack Pattern Skill)

GDF = Go Down Fighting, (0.248 at 100% hull remaining)


Figured te PvP forums would be the most intrested in the results, still need to figure out how BoFF skills besides APO interact with this though, mainly BO.


Okay BO worked out.

It adds damage to the base damage that is then multiplied by everythign else, (consoles, weapons power, tac bufs, everything).

The modifiers are +500% for BO1, +625% for BO2, and +750% for BO3. Or more simply base damage multiplied by 6/7.25/8.5.

Last edited by carl103; 11-07-2012 at 05:39 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 434
# 2
11-07-2012, 06:09 PM
Thank you for putting in the time and effort with this. For all new and old players alike it will help get a better understanding of how things fit together.
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Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,754
# 3
11-07-2012, 06:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by carl103 View Post
1. All tac buffs, (plus APO), are straight multipliers on damage after all other effects. If several are active then the modifiers stack additively with each other and the final total is the multiplier.
oh, having 5 tac consoles isn't that big of a deal. SURE. RIGHT.

the tac buffs multiply the adjusted tool tip displayed damage huh? from what i've seen i'll believe that. no wonder 5 console ships hit so much harder when fully buffed.


good job doing all this testing
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Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,764
# 4
11-07-2012, 07:04 PM
I thought all Tac buffs where suppossed to be applied to base weapon damage?

So the effects of ApA buff my base DHC damage, then CRF buffs the base DHC, then ApO, etc. Not ApA buffs then CRF buffs (ApA+base) then ApO buffs (ApA+CRF+base)m etc.
Richard Hamilton (1975-2014)
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,083
# 5
11-07-2012, 07:15 PM
algebraic.

*horizon consumes data*

have fun kill bad guys
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,474
# 6
11-07-2012, 07:19 PM
IIRC, there was a ship's tier multiplier as well. But, that may have been w/the old skill system.

(B + (B*S) + (B*(C/2)))*(0.02*(W-50)))*(APA+TF+APO+GDF)

Also, if B = 1 and no tac boosts and 125 weapon power and B=1

(1 +(1*.5) + (1*.5))*(0.02*75)*(0+0+0+0)=(1+.5 +.5)(1.5)(0)=0

Something seems off and how you wrote your formula.

Perhaps,

(B + (B*S) + (B*(C/2)))*(0.02*(W-50)))*(APA+TF+APO+GDF) + (B + (B*S) + (B*(C/2)))*(0.02*(W-50)))

since often the tac multiplyer would be less than 1?

Edit: Also, irrc the weapon power influence was nonlinear.

Last edited by p2wsucks; 11-07-2012 at 07:25 PM.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 77
# 7
11-07-2012, 07:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by carl103 View Post
So here's the current actual formulae for damage at weapons power setting of 50 or more:


(B + (B*S) + (B*(C/2)))*(0.02*(W-50)))*(APA+TF+APO+GDF)

Where:

B = Base weapons damage without Skill or any other modifiers.

S= Total benefit from skill points as decimal, (0.5 at 9 point sin all relevant skills).

C = Total console benefit as a decimal, (1.5 for 5 MkXII purple consoles).

W= Weapons Power

APA = Attack Pattern Alpha (0.5 at 100 Attack pattern skill)

TF = Tactical Fleet (0.175)

APO = Attack Pattern Omega (0.25 at 100 attack Pattern Skill)

GDF = Go Down Fighting, (0.248 at 100% hull remaining)
So if I'm reading this correctly:

1) Tac console benefit is actually rather small compared to the benefit from skills. So does this prove that it is better to get a torp console, then stack energy type consoles if you run a DBB, DHC, DHC, torp on fore, as the base damage of a torp is very much higher than an energy weapon and so will get more significant effect from just 1 console vs stacking all 5? This assumes that the torp is hitting bare hull.

Or is stacking all 5 a better idea, because each console benefits rather little and therefore you need more to get out of your weapons?

But if anything, this proves that pretty much whatever spec you are you should get all the base weapon talents

Do you know where does the crit multiple apply? Is it by multiplying this entire formula (and hence giving us the insane 100k lolcrit on BO3 we tacs are infamous for?)

Quote:
Originally Posted by carl103 View Post
Figured te PvP forums would be the most intrested in the results, still need to figure out how BoFF skills besides APO interact with this though, mainly BO.
Hope to read about what you've found


Quote:
Originally Posted by carl103 View Post
Okay BO worked out.

It adds damage to the base damage that is then multiplied by everythign else, (consoles, weapons power, tac bufs, everything).

The modifiers are +500% for BO1, +625% for BO2, and +750% for BO3. Or more simply base damage multiplied by 6/7.25/8.5.
...that means after everything applied BO3 will hit like a twuck. But I also want my CRF2 and APO3. Dilemmaz.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 633
# 8
11-07-2012, 11:59 PM
@P2W: I think I see what I did there, the tac modifiers should be (1+(APA+TF+APO+GDF)). Regardless is tac modifiers are 0 that section of the equation can be dropped. Your version may be correct too, a bit too tired to think it through, just woke up. Also I only checked at 50/75/100/125 power but it is currently linear at a rate of +0.02% per point of power. At values below 50 a different formulae is in effect that i wasn't able to work out. Suffice to say given how it interacts with consoles my guess is it's an even bigger negative than previously thought as i suspect it interacts with skil points, and maybe tac buffs in the same way.

@Dontdrunkimshoot: the difference between a 4 and 5 console ship with MkXII purples is +7% across the board. Because of the way they fail to interact with skill points and their halved real magnitude of benefit, for someone running 9 ranks in all relevant skills the magnitude of benefit can be determined by adding up all console percentages, converting to decimal, and then dividing by 3. Add a 1 on the front of the result and this is your modifier. Or basically 5 MkXII purples are a 1.5 multiplier whilst 4 are a 1.4 multiplier.

@bitemepwe: That?s what I thought, but it isn't what i found. Sorry.

Anyway gtg. Work.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,192
# 9
11-08-2012, 12:36 AM
Wouldn't it be better if the consoles improved +weapon skills /+projectile or whatver instead giving some % bonus ?
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 157
# 10
11-08-2012, 12:42 AM
I put this in another thread a long time ago. but it explains how torpedo damage work.

It might help get the energy nailed down. last time i checked it was dead on with in game values.

"each torpedo type has a base damage(standard issue below mk 1) i know not every has a standard issue level but they do have a number.

the base numbers are

Photon - 1352.00
Transphasic - 978.20
Chroniton - 1157.75
Plasma - 1061.00
Tricobalt - 4153.50
Quantum - 1503.00

now for all the things that add damage.

rarity is 2.5% per level (so very rare is 7.5%, rare is 5.0%, uncommon is 2.5%)

Skills is .5% per point (so 49.5% for 99points in starship weapons training 49.5% for starship projectile weapons and 12.5% for doff +25 bonus)

going form base damage to mk 1 is 8.1362%

every mk after is 10.2% per level (so at mk xii you have a total bonus of 120.3365%

player lvl adds .0388468615825ish lol per level (lvl 50 total bonus is 1.94%)

Dmg modifier is 5% each (so Dmgx3 is 15%)

tactial consoles add a what they say they add (5 consoles at 30% is 150%)

now for set bonuses i think they work like consoles (so breen 30% or honor guard 25%)

the rules 62 console i think is the same way (11%?)

so adding together 7.5%(very rare), 15%(dmgx3), 111.5%(99 points, 99 points, and 25 points), 120.34%(MK XII), 1.94%(level 50) 150.63%(5 Tactical Consoles), 30%(breen set), 11%(rule 63 console) you get 447.9% total bonus on transphasic torpedos

978.2 * 447.9% is 4381.3

4381.3 plus the base damage of 978.2 is 5360

so the max damage per torpedo without any powers is 5360"

I will see if i can find my excel file that did all the math for you, you just picked what you had.
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