Captain
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 663
# 11
12-10-2012, 02:21 PM
Either way how you twist and turn it, it seems no one ever gets happy.
Co-founder of The Spanish Inquisition TSI - Cause no one expects it!

PaxOttomana: gawd mirror event is like fighting a tsi premade, they keep comin and comin!
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,325
# 12
12-10-2012, 07:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevehale View Post
I can't speak for others but none of this is personal for me. Personal attacks are pointless regardless of whatever rational one can dream up to justify them. I think "Devs" tends to be the catch all term (like P2W is for all bad mechanics since F2P even if those things aren't literally P2W). I don't even know whether it's a Dev problem as much as a Ownership problem. I don't know who actually makes the decisions or how they determine what constitutes a success.

That being said, if a dog defecates on the carpet you can praise him, ignore him, or rub his nose in it and tell him "No! Bad dog!" Of the three options, reminding them that what they are doing is bad has a slightly better potential for achieving success than the other two.

Maybe they get that things aren't great but unless or until they can do something to fix the problem, negativity is an unfortunate reality. They can bury their head in the sand to protect fragile egos or they can recognize that a problem exists and take steps to resolve it.

Not everything is bad.

I'm not motivated by a need to troll the Development team. When they do well I'll be among the first in line to praise them for it (The DS9 Pack and Doffemon were excellent). Sometimes I'll even shy away from commenting on something that's been beaten into the ground unless a new wrinkle appears. But the only way anything can improve is if we continue to give feedback (hopefully in constructive ways), especially if it's negative.
^ this.

I' also among the first to praise Cryptic when things go right, and that's balanced when stuff gets broken due to their own greed or stupidity. I think they did a fantastic job with the Winter Wonderland, half the fleet is currently scuttling around it showing off their new gear, the ship is open to all, their happy.

But the other side of the coin is, another year comes to a close and nothing has changed in PVP for the better, nothing. But we have "gained" more hard to gain ships that increase the creep every time, we've gained passive skills that need to be grinded for to stay with current trends, we've gained Lobi & C Store ships that are becoming more and more OP every time.

Are we giving the Devs a hard time? Yep. They deserve EVERY sour word they get thrown at them. I know i wouldn't advertise my involvement in the game if i was an employee. It'd be easier to say "i'm a two-faced lier who's too scared of stepping out in order to make what i create morally correct."

They do things right, they get my praise, they do things wrong, they get my Negative feedback. If i'm ignored they get my irritation. Nobody can say the customer always knows whats best for them. And we're no exception. But we're owed several years' worth of back content, fixes and attention. I think my irritation is the LEAST they can ****ing expect.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,447
# 13
12-11-2012, 02:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolverine595959 View Post
DRK I hear you but the problem has always been that we are out and out mislead. Its one thing if they said, "PvPers we do not care about you because you are like 5% of the game take what we give or don't, there is bigger group PvE that fills the coffers." We all could have lived with that and left or continued to grind or whatever. No they get on say, "You are right PvP is borked we are working on fix, it should be next season. Ok myabe not this season maybe next." I am sorry but devs are the reason why the atmosphere is toxic and most of the PvPers have moved on or have taking really long breaks. Cryptic has wanted to kill PvP since it went F2P becaue lets be real we are a small portion of the money they bring in.
Why should they openly admit "We will never invest any major resources into PvP, what you got so far in ongoing support is all you will ever get"?

That could mean many PvPers will be leaving. And no longer buying the latest C-Store ship for its new console and options (regardless of whether it's OP, UP, or something else, a new ship and a new ability is always cool too have for a PvPer, the infinite tinkerer). What is there to gain for them? Moral superiority? You can't keep a company afloat with that.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 726
# 14
12-11-2012, 08:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mustrumridcully0 View Post
Why should they openly admit "We will never invest any major resources into PvP, what you got so far in ongoing support is all you will ever get"?

That could mean many PvPers will be leaving. And no longer buying the latest C-Store ship for its new console and options (regardless of whether it's OP, UP, or something else, a new ship and a new ability is always cool too have for a PvPer, the infinite tinkerer). What is there to gain for them? Moral superiority? You can't keep a company afloat with that.
I always feel there is no defense for honesty. If they said no more resources for PvP, it would then get rid of expectations, no expectations a lot less anger and vitriol. If they keep the status quo expectations remain, unmet expectations become anger, the situation becomes toxic.
Hey I Used to be Captain Data, well I guess I still am in game but the account link really screwed everything up
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,416
# 15
12-11-2012, 09:34 AM
the only time i get personal is when they outright lie and get caught.

there has been a history of this in this game.

then they usually try to tell the player base theyre the mistaken ones.



nope.

actions speak louder then words and their actions shows just how much they give a damn about our community of pvp'rs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mancom View Post
Frankly, I think the only sound advice that one can give new players at this time is to stay away from PVP in STO.
Science pvp at its best-http://www.youtube.com/user/matteo716
Do you even Science Bro?
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,744
# 16
12-11-2012, 09:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by drkfrontiers View Post
As a PvPer, I am rather sad. Sad, that for whatever reasons, IMHO we collectively chose to be part of the problem.
Or it could be that you (or at least some of you) stopped trying to be a part of the solution .
After ... such a long time of abandonment by Cryptic ... -- I'm not blaming anyone anymore .
Too long time has passed since PVP got any "love" . Much too long .
This isn't just a joke for me . It allows for epic PUG matches that are really tooth to claw -- especially if you get teamed with STO players who have played STO PVP before ... (I was the Kdf Tac who took top score there but on the Fed side a Sci nearly led his team to victory -- and would have won too if he had more experienced players at his side) .
The "Bug" infested carrier spam that made me leave PVP behind a year ago (I wasn't a "pro" , just an enthusiast ) was just a warning sign on the road .
I look for warning signs .
(but I am a bit paranoid )
"We're not mad at Angry Birds, and we're not trying to defend the universe from Angry Birds. Although you might want to consider defending yourself from Angry Birds. If you aren't paying for the app, you aren't a customer, you're the product ."

- former CIA, NSA chief Michael Hayden -- your guide to F2P ...
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 297
# 17
12-11-2012, 10:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by maicake716 View Post
the only time i get personal is when they outright lie and get caught.

there has been a history of this in this game.

then they usually try to tell the player base theyre the mistaken ones.



nope.

actions speak louder then words and their actions shows just how much they give a damn about our community of pvp'rs.
And Stahl is a great one to be demanding he be judged by his track record! Judgement day has come and gone and the verdict was less than favorable.
Arawn & Ihasa
OP *is* the new balance, whether you know it or not! Gecko says so.
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http://seekingalpha.com/article/7382...-latest-update
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