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Join Date: Jun 2012
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Update: After further testing I have discovered that the bug is that Patrols Points are ignoring the Y Relative To selection. They are always set Y Relative To Zero, regardless of whether you select Relative To Terrain, Relative To Geometry, etc. You can safely skip the rest of this thread.

There's something weird going on with the behavior of patrols. When the map first loads, the patrols will jump frequently (literally jump up in the air with the jump animation) as if they are trying to get past an obstacle, even though nothing is in the way.

After a few minutes (I think when the patrol has completed at least one circuit) they stop jumping, and walk normally. This makes me think that it doesn't have anything to do with the actual route, because if it was, why would they stop having trouble after a couple of minutes?

The problem occurs both before and after publishing, so it's not a pathing issue.

Patrols also stop frequently, instead of cycling smoothly through their points. I don't know if this gets worse with more patrols on the map, or what, but it makes them seem really jerky.

You really just have to see this for yourself.

Mission: Dereliction Duty | ST:A Ep:1
Project ID: ST-HAKXYCH4Y
Map: U.S.S. Atlas Deck 13


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Last edited by nagorak; 12-11-2012 at 04:47 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 547
# 2
12-11-2012, 08:55 AM
Alright, I had a look.

First, you're not crazy, I saw it too in your mission. But, I've not seen it in my missions where I added patrols, at least, not after a publish. So it definitely is unique to your map or mission.

The first is the simple answer of it having to do with the custom design of your maps. I only saw patrols jump through the ceiling when they hit the back of doors. Other than that, they did their mini hops every time they turned. I wonder, are the patrol nodes set to the exact top level of your ground blocks? Or are they in fact above it or below it? Are the patrols trying to jump through the blocks to get to them?

Also, how did you get the individual person patrols? The only two patrols I saw were two cadets wandering on their own? Did you use single neutral targs or something like that for them? I didn't think you did since they were listed as friendly and I didn't think Neutral Beasts did that. If what you did was split a patrol up to different levels, to give the look of only one man/woman/nuetralsexedindividual walking through the halls, are they in fact jumping to rejoin the rest of their patrol.

I can't see behind your curtain, so I don't know exactly how you have it all set up, but those are the thoughts I had.

Also, last time I played this was about a year ago. Nice work updating the Atlas over that time. Looks really slick. You've got a patience and a focus with map design far beyond me.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 844
# 3
12-11-2012, 01:23 PM
Yeah, I used the single neutral targ. They appear as friendly, but they won't attack either Fed or Klingon faction. They still attack other factions though which is a pain because you can't use them as dead bodies and such except with Klingon faction NPCs.

I had the patrol nodes set to 0.9 higher than the floor, but that didn't seem to work, so I changed it to be equal to the floor (which is really inside the middle of the floor). I guess I could try raising them up. Maybe 0.9 higher is actually not quite enough to clear the floor.

It's just strange because after about one circuit they start walking normally. But maybe that could be because they realize they can't get any closer to the nodes. I'll try adjusting their height and see what happens.

Thanks for the positive feedback on the Atlas.


Click here for my Foundry tutorial on Creating A Custom Interior Map.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 844
# 4
12-11-2012, 02:57 PM
I'm trying to get to the bottom of this problem. Raising the patrol point coordinates did not help, nor does changing the height of the ceiling.

However, removing the ceiling seems to make it so the patrols work properly. I think that the patrol route may be being drawn on the highest level of the map, regardless of what elevation you set it to?

Unfortunately, on a custom interior, removing the ceiling obviously is not a possible solution. I'll play around with this some more and see if I can figure out any more details.


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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 844
# 5
12-11-2012, 03:16 PM
Ok, I'm 90% sure the problem has to do with the patrol path being drawn automatically on the top level of geometry, regardless of what Y value you set the patrol path to. As soon as you add one platform above another they start jumping. They want to get up on top of the platform above them at each patrol point and try to jump to get up there, even if the patrol points aren't set that high.

However, I do think this behavior should be able to be fixed, especially since the patrols work better after completing one circuit. If the behavior from the second circuit onwards was used from the start they should not jump inappropriately. Another option would be if they just ignored the Y value altogether and just remained on the floor of whatever platform they're set to.


Click here for my Foundry tutorial on Creating A Custom Interior Map.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,053
# 6
12-11-2012, 03:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nagorak View Post
Ok, I'm 90% sure the problem has to do with the patrol path being drawn automatically on the top level of geometry, regardless of what Y value you set the patrol path to. As soon as you add one platform above another they start jumping. They want to get up on top of the platform above them at each patrol point and try to jump to get up there, even if the patrol points aren't set that high.
sigh, if that is the case, this will never get fixed I'm afraid. It reminds me of what ultimately makes the copy and paste tool buggy as crap due to y values.

It something inherently buggy.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 844
# 7
12-11-2012, 03:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kirksplat View Post
sigh, if that is the case, this will never get fixed I'm afraid. It reminds me of what ultimately makes the copy and paste tool buggy as crap due to y values.

It something inherently buggy.
Actually I think that the problem may be something less serious. I'm checking now, and will post back in a few minutes.


Click here for my Foundry tutorial on Creating A Custom Interior Map.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 844
# 8
12-11-2012, 03:41 PM
Ok, I figured out the actual problem. Patrol points are all set at Y relative to Zero, regardless of what it looks like you have it set to (Terrain, Geometry, etc).

I built U.S.S. Atlas Deck 13 back during the days of Y relative to terrain. Or maybe I should refer to those days as B.Z. for "before zero". Obviously I never went back and changed all of the objects to YrtZ because it would take hours and the map already works fine.

The reason the NPCs were all jumping was because their patrol points were literally set higher than the ceiling, since the terrain of the moon clearing map is is actually below zero. So, they were actually doing what they were supposed to, the points were just being set wrong since they were set relative to zero, even though I had selected terrain.

I figured out the YrtZ value and now they work perfectly!


Click here for my Foundry tutorial on Creating A Custom Interior Map.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,053
# 9
12-11-2012, 03:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nagorak View Post
I'm trying to get to the bottom of this problem. Raising the patrol point coordinates did not help, nor does changing the height of the ceiling.

However, removing the ceiling seems to make it so the patrols work properly. I think that the patrol route may be being drawn on the highest level of the map, regardless of what elevation you set it to?

Unfortunately, on a custom interior, removing the ceiling obviously is not a possible solution. I'll play around with this some more and see if I can figure out any more details.
One thing that you also might try is intentionally leaving a gap between the ceiling and the walls so it isn't a closed box.

This whole thing seems like another lifespan of old bugs as well. For example, Drogyn has a map where all his npcs spawn just fine until the ceiling is put in place. Then they seem to jump somewhere else, either falling through or spawning above.

Whatever it is, I wonder if it is related to the "jelly spots" of those platforms. It's getting to the point where I'm afraid to make a custom set because all the work might be in vain if the npc won't spawn or function properly. "Relics" was a nightmare due to crazy npc behavior.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,053
# 10
12-11-2012, 03:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nagorak View Post
Ok, I figured out the actual problem. Patrol points are all set at Y relative to Zero, regardless of what it looks like you have it set to (Terrain, Geometry, etc).

I built U.S.S. Atlas Deck 13 back during the days of Y relative to terrain. Or maybe I should refer to those days as B.Z. for "before zero". Obviously I never went back and changed all of the objects to YrtZ because it would take hours and the map already works fine.

The reason the NPCs were all jumping was because their patrol points were literally set higher than the ceiling, since the terrain of the moon clearing map is is actually below zero. So, they were actually doing what they were supposed to, the points were just being set wrong since they were set relative to zero, even though I had selected terrain.

I figured out the YrtZ value and now they work perfectly!
OK that makes sense, I think. We may need a diagram to explain that one, lol.
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