Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,553
# 31
12-14-2012, 03:48 AM
I actually laughed when I read OPs first post. Some of the ones that followed were also quite amusing, but the first one took the cake.

So let's see if I got this right. Cryptic allows players to only have to do one (let's make sure you got this, only ONE) foundry mission to get a nice little chunk of dil and 50 fleet marks. AND it only has a 30 minute cooldown. Whereas the old one took you 15 minutes (loading time etc) and gave you 1440 dil and 50 marks, and then had a 20 hour cooldown. So you could only do it once a day. However this new Investigate reports requires you to actually do some work (30 minutes tops), BUT you can do it more than once per day. So this being said, you lose out on 480 dil per run, but you can do it more than once, which has the potential to allow you to get 12x what you would have gotten over that 20 hour period, and OP still isn't satisfied. Ok...

Next up, Cryptic DRASTICALLY reduces both the resource requirements and time it takes for the reputation system, while completely eliminating the dilithium requirements for both tiering up and unlocking new items. Granted purchasing items requires dilithium, but it's supposedly top of the line gear, so supposedly worth it. And OP still isn't happy. Ok...

Next, we have fleet actions. They now give a nice chunk of dil, and once a day, each one can get you fleet marks, while at the same time you can also get a nice chunk of skill points (for those of us not at level 50 or levelling new toons) and nice drops (the NPCs do occasionally be kind and give good things), and there are actually lots of people doing them, whereas before you were lucky if a gorn minefield or sb24 gave you a queue. So more dil, fleet marks, and possible gear. And OP STILL isn't happy. Ok...

Next up, STFs. They gave us back our dilithium in those STFs, and the NPCs also drop far more often than they did before. And some of those drops are actually quite nice (especially from tac cubes and regular cubes). AND we got our end of battle loot back. And you can get mk XII purple gear from it again. But OP still is not happy. Ok...

I could go on and on about how ludicrous this whole thread is, but I will simply state that despite what you said OP, their changes aren't just a step in the right direction, it's more than a lot of players deserve. You want everything to be given to you almost free. You want things to fall over at your feet. You want instant gratification, without bothering to actually do anything. Well you sir are a part of a very very SMALL minority that will never be happy. I pity you more than anything.

P.S. As for the Tier 5 Starbase? There won't be any of those until around february of next year fastest I think. It was predicted it would take that long anyways, even with everyone doing every project with them adding them every 20 hours/40 hours. I say again, INSTANT GRATIFICATION. And it was stated very specifically, starbases were designed for 25 people. Not 2, not 5, but 25.

And now what this thread has earned:

*facepalm
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Tired of Wasting EC and Time trying to get Superior Romulan Operative BOffs? Here's a cheap and easy way to get them, with an almost 100% chance of success.
Why the Devs can't make PvE content harder.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 100
# 32
12-14-2012, 04:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bugshu View Post
Its obvious that Cryptic being overstingy with fleet marks and dilithium hurt the game.

Maybe they honestly believed that people would "earn" more dilithium if they made people work harder for it. Obviously that hasnt been the case and dilithium keeps rising in value.

Fleet marks have been especially problematic. Every fleet in the game has seen sharply reduced progression. Frankly most fleets are stuck.

Increasing payouts for dilithium mining is nice but it still wont be popular. Its boring and you could triple the payout and there still would be more fun and more efficient ways to get dilithium. As a time gate its a fail. As a fun mission its a huge fail.

Reducing investigate officer reports from 3 missions to 1 will help a little but not a whole lot. It now becomes the most efficient way to get fleet marks and you dont have to do the boring Cryptic missions over and over and over to get the marks. Certainly there are player made missions better than Cryptics grind missions. The problem is that Cryptic is still trying to gate players time and tell them what they have to do. Some people dont like foundry missions. I honestly doubt players will rush to do foundry missions to ease the fleet mark crises for fleets dead on projects.

Certainly this isnt going to bring back people playing with alts as they might do 3-4 foundry missions a week if they feel like it but the people that alted 8-10 characters a day for the log in bonus mission were the ones pushing fleets forward.

Cryptic seriously underestimated how much fleets depended on the daily log in bonus for those marks and the dilithium. It hurt the game and it hurt their revenues. They are trying to backpedal a bit here but its not enough. People are not playing their alts anymore and many are not logging in daily to get their log in bonus.

Say what you want about calling the log in bonus an exploit or laziness or whatever ... but I will tell you this. People liked being able to log in, contribute to their fleet, chat, say hi, and do something positive that helped themselves and others without huge needs of time and effort. Most people are nice in this world when it doesnt cost a lot. Time gates and work make it less fun to be nice.

Cryptic made their game too hard and out of reach for most players. You can do well with 1 toon or maybe even 2-3 if you try hard but its more work than fun and few people have enough time to work to make a great toon and then have leftovers to share with fleets and friends. STO is segregating players from the Whales that buy Zen to those that they feel should be pushed out of the game. I did not ask or want Cryptic to go free to play but I will dern well tell you that if you are going to offer something to someone as a free gift that you better well let them enjoy it.

Todays changes were a step in the right direction but a long way away from the journeys end of making this game fun again. This was a bandaid on a gushing wound. The Log-In bonus needs to be restored or mission rewards need to be increased 1000%. Removal of the log in bonus to the STO economy was like what would happen if the Fed raised interest rates to 10%. Todays action would be what would happen if the fed then lowered them to 9.5% ... sure it helps but more needs to be done.

Cryptic knows it made a huge mistake when they took away the login bonus which is the reason they did todays backpedal.

Just quit inching backwards.

Admit your mistake and return the log in bonus and quit calling it an exploit. It was and is an important part of the game.
huh?
i thought i am the dude who see the glass half empty

honest:
this with the clicky missions - forget them. it was like a bug, cheating or something like that.
the foundrymissions aren't made for this and the daily too.

the solution how it came now is great! really!

the fleetbase wasnt never planned for a handful of dudes finish it within a few weeks/month.

small fleets will reach their limit at TIER III and this is ok.

see it from 2 sides:
if you get something, just fur the log in - people make 100 muleaccounts
now you can enjoy foundrymissions and get a reward what is more than ok. really!
this is a fine solution for all sides:
for the devs, the foundryauthors, large AND small fleets

i love the changes!!
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 189
# 33
12-14-2012, 04:46 AM
I swear i have less trouble soloing a starbase than some small fleets... but then I never planned on getting tier 5 tomorrow.
Career Officer
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 2,678
# 34
12-14-2012, 05:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bugshu View Post
The game survives because of Zen. And if less people play then less people will buy zen. If the ones that do play - then play less - because they are bored - they also will buy less zen. And if people discover that when they buy zen that they get less value for their money - they might start buying less zen.

How will the game survive indeed if you have less players, people playing less, and people buying less.

Games do close and I can name you dozens that have.....

DStahl could go back and try to work for city of heroes again or something ......

Oh wait ...

Lets see who designed COH....

That would be Cryptic....

Who said COH had a free to play model worth of emulation ....

That would be Cryptic.....

Who said COH was on the right track by making players grind more and giving them less...

That would be Cryptic.....

Who said COH had the best Microtransaction store in MMO's

That would be Cryptic......

Its well and good to have City of Heroes as your role model .....

Except .....

Oh yeah - It failed

Survival is an issue when a games not fun
City of Heroes didn't fail at all. NC Soft decided to pull the plug because they were making changes in the company. There was actually a big fuss about it on the CoH forums as well as petitions to save the game and even some news outlets posting the story. The game was actually doing fairly well and they were working on issue 24 and had plans at least to issue 26. We got screwed big time. Even the developers didn't know the game was going to shut down. Just 1 day the came in to work and all employees were let go and Paragon Studios shut down. No warning or anything. They actually were making a profit.

To be honest I believe CoH had a better cash shop. I played for a year and spent over $1,000 on Paragon Points in that time. Most of the stuff were permanent account unlocks. All costumes, all power sets, all non-combat pets. Just pay for it once and that was it. In STO the pets are all single character and only costumes in the c-store are account unlocks (They seem intent on putting more and more costumes in the stupid lobi store where you end up spending more real money (If you buy Zen that way) for a single character costume then you would for an account wide unlock in the c-store).

COH had fairer prices than STO. The most expensive items in the CoH cash shop was 1600 paragon points, roughly $20, and that was only 1 to 3 things. Everything else was $10 max. They were also adding a lot of new content every 3-4 months as well as having items in the cash shop go on sale every single week, sometimes something would be as much as 50% off, new items added at least once a month. Costume pack with a lot of different pieces unlocked for your whole account were ALL 400 points, $5 each.

You have no friggen clue what you are talking about.

*Note: In 2007 Cryptic sold City of Heroes to NC Soft. The game went free to play in 2011.

If what you claimed Cryptic said about CoH is true, it was because Cryptic felt stupid for failing at the game and selling it. Cryptic screwed up CoH and NC Soft saved it. They were jealous.

Edit: CoH didn't have nearly as much grind as STO. Not even close.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,176
# 35
12-14-2012, 06:01 AM
i applaud Cryptic for the Officer Daily change!

it was much needed..


To the exploit "clickies":

They were a quick way to get 1440 Dill and 50 FM's.
To be honest, i used it too at times. but not so much for the Dill, but for the FM's.
Having 12 toons now (9 before S7) i was actively playing 2-3.
I was getting to my daily 8k on one or two of them.

The other toons needed 1140, 2280, 3420, 4560, 5700, 6840, 7980 = 7 days to get to their 8k. If i even logged onto them. I do not think that was such a big amount..

On the other hand, i loved to have 9x50 = 450 FREE fleet marks a day to build up my fleet.

So - the dillithium is NOT the problem here at all. The problem are the FM's. How long would i have to play and coordinate with other people (on KDF side even more difficult) to get 450 Fleet Marks?
- 3,5 hours of Foundry
- logging only in when the bonus is around
- replaying the same 5 missions over and over, waiting in the queue, hoping the group will not be full of morons which can't read, don't know their stuff, sci's who don't heal, engis without turrets...

NOT FUN

IF the Fleet Star Bases are designed as sinks, their decision to let us grind for Fleet Marks, which are not usable for anything else and were previously free, is just stupid.
Now, my main sits on 100k Dill, refined, and im creating 20k a day without much trouble.
But i cannot put it into the base, cause the projects are standing cause of Fleet Marks.

Therefore the idea of AWARDING players JUST for logging into a toon by 50 free Fleet Marks and NOTHING ELSE is a GOOD IDEA.

ps - every other F2P game i know has a daily log-in bonus. Why not STO?

solution - give all Fleet actions also some Dill reward + the existing FM reward, and get the daily log-in bonus of 50 FM's on the road.

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Last edited by duaths1; 12-14-2012 at 06:36 AM.
Ensign
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 23
# 36
12-14-2012, 06:04 AM
In my Opinion,the real Problem with Dilli ist not to collect your 8000 per Day.
The Problem is the Refine Cap of 8000 Dilli.
That slow down FLeets in my eyes this Daily Amount is a Joke and i think this must be increased.

Maybe to 16.000 or 20.000
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,178
# 37
12-14-2012, 06:04 AM
A lot of the OP is just complaining for complaining sake, but a daily log in bonus is used in a lot of MMOs, it serves a real purpose, one that S7 has yet to address and we can feel the effects in game.

Encouraging people to log on every day, even if they don't really play, gives them a motive to come into the game, to keep playing and not forget or get detached from the game. Many games will give you increasing rewards for consecutive days logged in, so if you don't show up one day then you start back out with tiny rewards again.

Obviously this could be abused again, because the real exploit in the game is the ability to transfer dilithium from one character to another, not all the BS everyone else decides to call an exploit. So they could make the bonus one per account, or fix the root cause of the problem, which is what real businesses do, not just slap half used bandaids ontop of each other.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,176
# 38
12-14-2012, 06:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicha0 View Post
A lot of the OP is just complaining for complaining sake, but a daily log in bonus is used in a lot of MMOs, it serves a real purpose, one that S7 has yet to address and we can feel the effects in game.

Encouraging people to log on every day, even if they don't really play, gives them a motive to come into the game, to keep playing and not forget or get detached from the game. Many games will give you increasing rewards for consecutive days logged in, so if you don't show up one day then you start back out with tiny rewards again.
.
this, 1000x this

when there is a daily log-in bonus, which can help me/the fleet, i will log in, only if for a while. Then i chat a bit with friends, see what is new, what is fun, do some quick PVP or Fleet action... and look at my watch - i've played for 3 hours..

without the bonus, i just tell myself - i earned 700 FM's in the last 3 days - it's time my fleet mates do something. And i go play something else for a week.

Then i look around - 3 months are gone, and i have to install 2GB of updates before getting into the game.

Join the premiere Romulan community now!
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 742
# 39
12-14-2012, 07:20 AM
I have to say I havent used the Foundry missions since the change but I will be doing from now on, it will kickstart our SB progression again.

As I've stated before in other threads (and as one or two here have also said) its not the Dilithium that I miss its the Fleet Marks. The Dil was almost a by-product to me.

So this change is very welcome

I can honestly see why the "clickies" were outlawed, its not what the Foundry is about and detracted from the good work of many authors (Some damn fine work! Worthy of a Featured Episodes that would put Cryptic themselves to shame!) but it removed a source of FM. OK a very EASY source but a source none the less.

Personally I dont find the Fleet actions fun, although I have a soft spot for colony invasion, so grinding those does not enthrall me at all.

What would be great is if someone could compile a list of good, fun, 15 to 30 min foundry missions?

If its absorbing I'll go for it A varied source of missions will decrease the sense of repetition and grind.
Admiral Rednall
* Server Hamster - This time it's personal *
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 189
# 40
12-14-2012, 08:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nyxadrill View Post
I have to say I havent used the Foundry missions since the change but I will be doing from now on, it will kickstart our SB progression again.

As I've stated before in other threads (and as one or two here have also said) its not the Dilithium that I miss its the Fleet Marks. The Dil was almost a by-product to me.

So this change is very welcome

I can honestly see why the "clickies" were outlawed, its not what the Foundry is about and detracted from the good work of many authors (Some damn fine work! Worthy of a Featured Episodes that would put Cryptic themselves to shame!) but it removed a source of FM. OK a very EASY source but a source none the less.

Personally I dont find the Fleet actions fun, although I have a soft spot for colony invasion, so grinding those does not enthrall me at all.

What would be great is if someone could compile a list of good, fun, 15 to 30 min foundry missions?

If its absorbing I'll go for it A varied source of missions will decrease the sense of repetition and grind.
Try "hair today, gorn tomorrow" I get a kick out of the little bit of dialog involved otherwise its a simple ground battle against groups of gorn terminating in a boss fight. Running time for me 15 minutes.
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