Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 132
# 51
12-14-2012, 12:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by warpangel View Post
Reducing the cooldown for officer reports to 30 minutes means there is now zero incentive to play anything in the PvE queues except to get Omega/Romulan marks. The rewards for doing one easy foundry mission now outstrips the dilithium and fleet mark rewards of everything multiplayer.
Disagree, reducing the cooldown is still not enough incentive to play any of the foundry missions. There are so many out there with 5 star reviews that are horrible missions. If PvE Queues are dying it's because of the Winter event and seeing how the drop rates from the snow piles in the last patch was reduced, people will be spending even more time there and not in the STFs, Fleet Actions, or whatever.


Quote:
Originally Posted by warpangel View Post
There is such a thing as too much rewards.
Ah no, the more rewards you give users the more likely they will come back for even more. People are greedy and if you make it easy to get stuff; people will be there every day, make it hard and they will go on to something else.
12th-fleet.com
Join Date: Dec 2009
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,110
# 52
12-14-2012, 12:33 PM
I think it's a little too early to see how this change is going to affect the game. Before we would get a team to run the Fleet marks events during the bonus hour, now it is far more rewarding to run the foundry missions, however not everyone will want to play the same kind of foundry mission, some will want dialogue others pew pew.

I applaud Cryptic for making this move and it is surely a step in the right direction, but I can't help feeling it is not enough. The larger fleets like ours are inching towards T4 and some have just passed T4, a lot of the dilithium needed was purchased with Zen, perhaps as much as 50% or more. I know this because with over 7 million fleet credits I was one of those cash rich individuals making the purchases. The reason is I can afford it and it allows me to progress the base faster leaving me time to do other things I enjoy in the game. However even though I am cash rich I am not Donald Trump and I have to look at the exchange rate i get for my Zen now and at less than 140:1 I feel less inclined to purchase much dilithium. As it stands now at 105:1 I will not purchase any. This means I am not purchasing Zen and Cryptic is losing money. If my experience is repeated across many fleets and lots of individuals then perhaps Cryptic are starting to see Zen sales slumping.

This I believe is the reason they are ratcheting up the dilithium available until they strike a balance between dilithium earned and exchanged and Zen purchased. I can tell you for me it is at the 140:1 ratio that I feel inclined to buy, less than this and I feel progressively less inclined to spend my cash and the starbase progression slows, the same roughly goes for the other members of my fleet that are big contributors.

So, from my point of view the OP has a point although he took it too far in my opinion and perhaps some sort non-idle time login award is worth considering or a reduction on the dilithium sinks. Season 6 had it about right, Season 7 has serious problems.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 961
# 53
12-14-2012, 01:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bugshu View Post
People come to MMO's to achieve and accomplish. ....they find something else to do.
"Star Trek: Online" is my first ever multiplayer online game. If this game represents the best in the genre, "Star Trek: Online" will also become my very last multiplayer game.

Approximately three to four days ago, I went out and bought "Skyrim" and "Dragon Age II". After playing "Star Trek: Online" for a good ten months, I started to miss the fulfillment I get from playing offline games. You don't have to worry about lockboxes dropping, intense grinding, and intensely gated content. If I want to obtain a specific piece of gear, I don't have to: grind to unlock tiers, grind to claim a tier, grind to unlock the piece, and then grind to buy the items. Within a normal offline roleplaying game, you just have to meet certain criteria. Your level progression unlocks certain content, and you save up coins and items to 'instantly' buy them from stores. Also, the content you obtain can be used for leveling characters.

"Star Trek: Online" went from, "Yay! Featured episodes and new items!", to, "What?!?! I have to grind a million gates to get one item?". When I was playing through Season Five, I was hoping to see more featured episodes. Once they were replaced with fleetbases, embassies, and the reputation system, I started to remember what it was like to play single-player games. Its much more rewarding.

During the past four to five months, I spent around $200+ on the purchase of zen. Even though I spent that much money, the rewards for making a substantial investment didn't turn up. If I did get anything from my investment, I think I was rewarded with: nerfed gear, nerfed ships, nerfed weapons, nerfed rewards, nerfed progress, high dilithium requirements, high Omega, Fleet, and Romulan Marks requirements, extensively gated content, and zero over level fifty progression.

If it wasn't for the social aspects of this game, I would have most likely left after a few months.

I technically lost the game.

Last edited by linyive; 12-14-2012 at 01:58 PM.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 114
# 54
12-14-2012, 01:56 PM
[quote=hereticknight085;7083731]
Quote:
I actually laughed when I read OPs first post. Some of the ones that followed were also quite amusing, but the first one took the cake.

So let's see if I got this right. Cryptic allows players to only have to do one (let's make sure you got this, only ONE) foundry mission to get a nice little chunk of dil and 50 fleet marks. AND it only has a 30 minute cooldown. Whereas the old one took you 15 minutes (loading time etc) and gave you 1440 dil and 50 marks, and then had a 20 hour cooldown. So you could only do it once a day. However this new Investigate reports requires you to actually do some work (30 minutes tops), BUT you can do it more than once per day. So this being said, you lose out on 480 dil per run, but you can do it more than once, which has the potential to allow you to get 12x what you would have gotten over that 20 hour period, and OP still isn't satisfied. Ok...

Next up, Cryptic DRASTICALLY reduces both the resource requirements and time it takes for the reputation system, while completely eliminating the dilithium requirements for both tiering up and unlocking new items. Granted purchasing items requires dilithium, but it's supposedly top of the line gear, so supposedly worth it. And OP still isn't happy. Ok...
Was free prior Season 7. OK, ya needed some luck to get the required salvage and prototype drops to get it, but it was free without any requirement of Dilithium. The whole overhaul towards the reputation system was NOT needed. Just a little adaption in the drop rate or a system that kept track of how many times a player did an STF or simply made all parts at that moment available in the famous STF store for the EDC's.

Quote:
Next, we have fleet actions. They now give a nice chunk of dil, and once a day, each one can get you fleet marks, while at the same time you can also get a nice chunk of skill points (for those of us not at level 50 or levelling new toons) and nice drops (the NPCs do occasionally be kind and give good things), and there are actually lots of people doing them, whereas before you were lucky if a gorn minefield or sb24 gave you a queue. So more dil, fleet marks, and possible gear. And OP STILL isn't happy. Ok...
Fleet marks in SB24 or Gorn Minefield ? Where ? I believe you didn't played them after Season 7, coz there aren't any fleet marks to obtain during those events. As speaking from a nice chunk of Dilithium, 480 dil isn't a chunk, but a beggars tip.

Quote:
Next up, STFs. They gave us back our dilithium in those STFs, and the NPCs also drop far more often than they did before. And some of those drops are actually quite nice (especially from tac cubes and regular cubes). AND we got our end of battle loot back. And you can get mk XII purple gear from it again. But OP still is not happy. Ok...
Where ? Point me out where do you get those nice MK XII purple stuff in the STF's. The promised optional loot bag hasn't returned after the famous first patch after Season 7. Go check the release notes once and verify then with doing a STF Elite. Common, Uncommon MK X, useless batteries aren't rewards according level as said by Cryptic, but a plain lie and insult toward us. And even still, for that Common and Uncommon stuff, we need to play that silly Need Or Greed gambling game. Sorry, dude, if I take down a cube, by myself alone, and it drops something, I don't have to give another the shot to steal it away from me. Sounds selfish, but sorry, it's still my fruit of effort.

Quote:
I could go on and on about how ludicrous this whole thread is, but I will simply state that despite what you said OP, their changes aren't just a step in the right direction, it's more than a lot of players deserve. You want everything to be given to you almost free. You want things to fall over at your feet. You want instant gratification, without bothering to actually do anything. Well you sir are a part of a very very SMALL minority that will never be happy. I pity you more than anything.

P.S. As for the Tier 5 Starbase? There won't be any of those until around february of next year fastest I think. It was predicted it would take that long anyways, even with everyone doing every project with them adding them every 20 hours/40 hours. I say again, INSTANT GRATIFICATION. And it was stated very specifically, starbases were designed for 25 people. Not 2, not 5, but 25.
Yep, true, but how may that be so. Well, if Cryptic hadn't lingered around the issue that one of the projects was jamming the progress of the fleets, most of those fleets would have hit the Tier 5 by the end of this month, or beginning next month. Yes, a problem that has received over 200 bug reports remained untouched for more then 1 month and a half, which brought many fleets into problems to reach that Tier 5. We could think that Cryptic intentionally had put this issue aside, if we were evil minded.

Quote:
And now what this thread has earned:

*facepalm
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,553
# 55
12-14-2012, 02:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by adorkabledori View Post
Fleet marks in SB24 or Gorn Minefield ? Where ? I believe you didn't played them after Season 7, coz there aren't any fleet marks to obtain during those events. As speaking from a nice chunk of Dilithium, 480 dil isn't a chunk, but a beggars tip.
If you read the latest release notes, the featured fleet action daily (which will be SB24, Gorn Minefield, or Klingon Scout force) gives 960 dilithium and 50 fleet marks. Besides, I get to slap the crap out of NPCs which are weak as hell compared to the elite NPCs I usually fight, I get to laugh at other players incompetence or see others succeed and learn from them, AND I get paid to do it? What is there to complain about? I do fleet actions for fun, not for loot. If I wanted loot I would sit in Tau Dewa or Defera or the B'Tran Cluster (Vice Admiral/Lieutenant General) and farm those missions all day on Elite. Or I would do ESTFs (which are addressed in the next portion).

Quote:
Originally Posted by adorkabledori View Post
Where ? Point me out where do you get those nice MK XII purple stuff in the STF's. The promised optional loot bag hasn't returned after the famous first patch after Season 7. Go check the release notes once and verify then with doing a STF Elite. Common, Uncommon MK X, useless batteries aren't rewards according level as said by Cryptic, but a plain lie and insult toward us. And even still, for that Common and Uncommon stuff, we need to play that silly Need Or Greed gambling game. Sorry, dude, if I take down a cube, by myself alone, and it drops something, I don't have to give another the shot to steal it away from me. Sounds selfish, but sorry, it's still my fruit of effort.
This makes me wonder if you have played any elite STFs at all, since I have played dozens since S7 came out, and they did give us back our end of mission loot bags I believe two or three patches ago. Which contain dilithium, Omega marks, and random drops, some of them being mk XII purple equipment/weapons. Just the other day I got a rather nice mk XII phaser beam array [acc]x2 [crtd] which I sold for 4 million on the exchange.

Quote:
Originally Posted by adorkabledori View Post
Yep, true, but how may that be so. Well, if Cryptic hadn't lingered around the issue that one of the projects was jamming the progress of the fleets, most of those fleets would have hit the Tier 5 by the end of this month, or beginning next month. Yes, a problem that has received over 200 bug reports remained untouched for more then 1 month and a half, which brought many fleets into problems to reach that Tier 5. We could think that Cryptic intentionally had put this issue aside, if we were evil minded.
Now I think you're just being cynical. They addressed on of the biggest complaints that was put up with putting the dilithium back in STFs and giving people the opportunity to get better gear without having to place first in a fleet action (really not that hard tbh, I fly a bloody cruiser and I manage to do it on a regular basis), and all you got is a starbase project complaint? What about those people who aren't in fleets? As rare as they may be, they were still helped. Smaller fleets were helped by this. Hell, everyone was helped by this. I am not trying to be the poster boy for Cryptic, but at least give them credit for listening for once, and actually doing something for the playerbase with no trade-off.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Tired of Wasting EC and Time trying to get Superior Romulan Operative BOffs? Here's a cheap and easy way to get them, with an almost 100% chance of success.
Why the Devs can't make PvE content harder.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 114
# 56
12-14-2012, 06:01 PM
Dunno on which server you are playing nor what game you are. Just did a Starbase 24. Zero fleet marks and only 480 Dilithium. Be free to check it yourself
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 5,369
# 57
12-14-2012, 10:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluegeek View Post
Okay, a bonus just for logging in...

Fleet Marks doesn't work that well because there are plenty of people who aren't even in a fleet, so that's not quite fair to them.

Dilithium is problematical because it can be converted to Zen, which is how PWE makes money. If this perk were limited to Gold accounts, I would agree it's a good idea. I'd even be tempted to sub for that, plus the other Gold benefits.

Energy Credits? That could work okay, to allow people to save up for really expensive stuff on the Exchange. On the other hand, it could be less incentive for people to put stuff up on the Exchange.

What else is there?
To start, I do agree that a log-in bonus would be really nice, and help people log into the game and keep doing so each day.

I say don't force a single choice on anyone. Why not just give them a 'token' once a day for logging in? Then put a vendor at every major hub in the game, including fleet Starbases, which will let you spend the log-in token. Things could cost just 1 token, or multiple ones.

Some examples:

1 token items:

50,000 EC
50 Fleet Marks
50 common, or 1 uncommon unreplicatable material
A random uncommon or rare item of your level
A random common DOFF.
A bunch of commodities of your choosing

5 token items:

275,000 EC
275 Fleet Marks

15 token items:

825 FMs
DOFF pack (same as general recruitment would get you)

Larger amounts could from there include just more of the above, with a bonus for 'saving up' as it were. They could also include more unique rewards, like...other species of BOFFs (like Cardassians, Deferi, etc), perhaps DOFFs as well, and other such things.

That way there can still be a log in bonus, we couldn't get any dil out of it (since I feel that dil is the bigger problem here of things we shouldn't get outta this, not the FMs, because getting more FMs won't hurt the economy).

Obviously yes, this could potentially usher in a wave of farming again, true, but that could happen from ANYTHING. Just look at Q's Winter Wonderland.

If ya'll are worried about it, then keep it to one Fed, and one KDF character a day. So then no one can get more than 2 a day, ever. Though if that was the case, the tokens should be account bound, but if they aren't limited in such a manner ,then they'd need to be character bound, but untradable either way.

Ensign
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 24
# 58
12-14-2012, 11:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by adorkabledori View Post
Dunno on which server you are playing nor what game you are. Just did a Starbase 24. Zero fleet marks and only 480 Dilithium. Be free to check it yourself
You too? I was wondering if he was playing on the test server...
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,060
# 59
12-14-2012, 11:39 PM
OP tl;dr- "Me want all nao!"
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Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,553
# 60
12-15-2012, 12:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pwebranflakes View Post
  • The Fleet Action daily that randomly picks 1 of 3 missions now gives 50 Fleet Marks and 960 Dilithium.
Quote:
Originally Posted by adorkabledori View Post
Dunno on which server you are playing nor what game you are. Just did a Starbase 24. Zero fleet marks and only 480 Dilithium. Be free to check it yourself
Checkmate. Was it the Daily Fleet action at the time, or did you just go into a SB24?

(source)
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Tired of Wasting EC and Time trying to get Superior Romulan Operative BOffs? Here's a cheap and easy way to get them, with an almost 100% chance of success.
Why the Devs can't make PvE content harder.
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