Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 236
So they also went F2P, finally. I have actually been very excited about SWTOR for a long time ever since the rumors about it started circulating back when Dragon Age 1 came out.

I didn't buy the game when it came out because I have a habit of letting the game mature before jumping in. One year down the road, I'm kinda happy I didn't buy it. But, when they went F2P.. I was in a sense jumping for joy.

I jumped too soon though...

To ensure I'm not biased, I have to establish that I love both ST and SW almost equally. ST provides me with a very realistic feel and immersion about how our future would be like while SW represents my passion for action and yearning for things that are a little unrealistic (The Force).

So here's goes:

1. SWTOR's F2P model is extremely restrictive.. You gotta pay for everything. You even need to pay to earn XP at a full rate (As F2P, you're earning like 30% less XP). I'm only level 20, so I can't say if higher tier content will be free. Although I wont be surprised if they charge you too.

Also, certain skills are obtained at higher level if you're F2P. For example: Sprint ability only unlocks at lvl 15 for F2P while subs get it at lvl 1 (i think).

Buying commendation items are also more expensive for F2P. You need 30% more commendation points as a F2P.

>> Its almost like they're telling you: Don't play my game if you can't afford it, sucker! Not a very good business attitude right?

STO doesn't restrict you in any way at all in terms of playing the game normally. So, if you really want to be F2P, you can definitely be F2P. I mean, as a casual player, you're perfectly fine being in your T4 ship and still enjoy all the end-game content.

2. Social interaction is quite bad in SWTOR. I couldn't find public queues for Flashpoints, Heroic/Group instances. This can be really frustrating especially if you're low level player when everyone is already at max level.

Guilds in SWTOR is, well, the normal kind of guild. I haven't really explored much of what perks you get from being in a guild but I expect that it should be limited to just having a guild bank or something. STO has starbases, embassies

3. Servers are quite bad.. I mean I get frequent disconnects in STO too, but it happens way too often in SWTOR.

4. Space battles are..well.. can't comment yet because I've yet to even get my space ship in SWTOR at lvl 20. But really, how can SWTOR hold a candle against STO in space battles where even in the movies SW space battles are featured less than their ground action.

5. You can't alt-tab this game and switch your windows quickly.. means you can't play this in the office!! I've been playing STO during work hours and was able to switch between windows fairly quickly

6. Reserved for future post

However, I have to balance this argument:

1. SWTOR still has the most coveted weapons: The lightsabers! We have nanopulse but its no lightsaber.

2. The Jedi effect: You're a Jedi!! (pardon me if you play a smuggler or bounty hunter, no pun intended, this is my perspective anyway).

3. Companion interaction is marvellous. Really made them feel as companions rather than just cannon fodder. If cryptic ever got to developing the 1st officer feature maybe it can match SWTOR somehow.

4. Storyline quests are very immersive and it connects. Its bioware afterall, expect no less from them

OK - this has been a long post.. I'll update this thread as I move along in SWTOR but getting disconnected every 10 steps is not funny and is rather frustrating.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 281
# 2
12-17-2012, 06:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by avarseir View Post
So they also went F2P, finally. I have actually been very excited about SWTOR for a long time ever since the rumors about it started circulating back when Dragon Age 1 came out.

I didn't buy the game when it came out because I have a habit of letting the game mature before jumping in. One year down the road, I'm kinda happy I didn't buy it. But, when they went F2P.. I was in a sense jumping for joy.

I jumped too soon though...

To ensure I'm not biased, I have to establish that I love both ST and SW almost equally. ST provides me with a very realistic feel and immersion about how our future would be like while SW represents my passion for action and yearning for things that are a little unrealistic (The Force).

So here's goes:

1. SWTOR's F2P model is extremely restrictive.. You gotta pay for everything. You even need to pay to earn XP at a full rate (As F2P, you're earning like 30% less XP). I'm only level 20, so I can't say if higher tier content will be free. Although I wont be surprised if they charge you too.

Also, certain skills are obtained at higher level if you're F2P. For example: Sprint ability only unlocks at lvl 15 for F2P while subs get it at lvl 1 (i think).

Buying commendation items are also more expensive for F2P. You need 30% more commendation points as a F2P.

>> Its almost like they're telling you: Don't play my game if you can't afford it, sucker! Not a very good business attitude right?

STO doesn't restrict you in any way at all in terms of playing the game normally. So, if you really want to be F2P, you can definitely be F2P. I mean, as a casual player, you're perfectly fine being in your T4 ship and still enjoy all the end-game content.

2. Social interaction is quite bad in SWTOR. I couldn't find public queues for Flashpoints, Heroic/Group instances. This can be really frustrating especially if you're low level player when everyone is already at max level.

Guilds in SWTOR is, well, the normal kind of guild. I haven't really explored much of what perks you get from being in a guild but I expect that it should be limited to just having a guild bank or something. STO has starbases, embassies

3. Servers are quite bad.. I mean I get frequent disconnects in STO too, but it happens way too often in SWTOR.

4. Space battles are..well.. can't comment yet because I've yet to even get my space ship in SWTOR at lvl 20. But really, how can SWTOR hold a candle against STO in space battles where even in the movies SW space battles are featured less than their ground action.

5. You can't alt-tab this game and switch your windows quickly.. means you can't play this in the office!! I've been playing STO during work hours and was able to switch between windows fairly quickly

6. Reserved for future post

However, I have to balance this argument:

1. SWTOR still has the most coveted weapons: The lightsabers! We have nanopulse but its no lightsaber.

2. The Jedi effect: You're a Jedi!! (pardon me if you play a smuggler or bounty hunter, no pun intended, this is my perspective anyway).

3. Companion interaction is marvellous. Really made them feel as companions rather than just cannon fodder. If cryptic ever got to developing the 1st officer feature maybe it can match SWTOR somehow.

4. Storyline quests are very immersive and it connects. Its bioware afterall, expect no less from them

OK - this has been a long post.. I'll update this thread as I move along in SWTOR but getting disconnected every 10 steps is not funny and is rather frustrating.
I remember having a bad feeling when DA2 came out concerning BioWare. Before that I had built SWTOR up in my head to being the greatest game ever. It was going to be BioWare, and Star Wars, how could it not be great. I gave up in the beta, when my jedi had to take a cab, and kill 10 flesh ripper things, with his "practice" lightsaber. I remember thinking "This is really stupid, what's my guy doing running around with a practice lightsaber?" "Scouring the galaxy for a sparring partner?" It's my belief that that miserable piece of crapware in a SW wrapper, and the shoddy, half-baked, ending of ME3 are what forced the good doctors to retire.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,689
# 3
12-17-2012, 06:51 PM
Funny thing about bioware was, I was their biggest fan from day 1.
All of the things they did was logical. Made sence. And in the end they put all there balls in the same basket with swotr and lost.
They blamed the fans for it and quit.
It is ok to fail, but it isn't ok to blame the consumer for failing.

Cryptic does the same.
They love to blame everything and everyone about not being able to fix the worst faction in mmo history.
"Data says this..." "17%" "no resources but buy this...."
But in the end they didn't even step up to the plate.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,060
# 4
12-17-2012, 06:55 PM
Nonsense. The consumer is quite often wrong. There's a reason Justin Bieber is insanely wealthy instead of flipping burgers like he should be and it ain't because found a genie in a lamp.
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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 418
# 5
12-17-2012, 07:07 PM
STO is still my main MMO but the key 5 things about it are:
  • too many short-sighted decisions (despite abundant player feedback) that they later have to reverse
  • nowhere near enough attention paid to retention or customer service
  • unacceptably high number of unresolved bugs that impact play completion (i.e. "Major" severity or above)
  • still a huge lack of Star Trek "feel" after 3 years (sole exceptions: The 2800 FEs, the KDF Fek'lhri arc, and Past Imperfect)...distressingly STO is moving even further away from this with the reputation grinds
  • completely dead story progression

The macrotransactions (that's right, there's NOTHING micro about the Z-Store), lockbox scams, and the starbase grind are easy enough to ignore or spend your entire life playing to advance.

Sorry to hear about TOR, I agree they're going to choke the life out of it with that over-restricted F2P but sounds like they still haven't broken even or turned profit on their initial investment. I'm willing to bet STO is at least cash-flow positive but the initial investment (or lack thereof) really shows up in the finished products of both games.

In response, I've cut off all of Cryptic's funding. I will now live on the stipend and wait for sales on Z-Store items.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jengoz View Post
Silly Rabbit, the Devs don't play the game. That's why they have no idea about the problems.

Last edited by sekritagent; 12-17-2012 at 08:20 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,020
# 6
12-17-2012, 07:20 PM
F2P has been a mixed bag for me. I suppose my biggest gripe is that all STO's best content was developed whilst the game was P2P.

New players come here and go 'wow!' when they see the wealth of story missions, ground and space combat, a decent level of customization, Boffs, Doffs, the Foundry and all the other really, really neat things.

But that STO is dead - it died when the game went F2P - since then we've had Starbases, Defera, Nukara and now New Romulus and the Rep System. We've had some incredibly weak Fleet Actions and some poor STF-wannabes added and a whole lot of grind.

In the meantime, the Featured Episodes, PvP and the KDF have languished and will continue to do so whilst the primary money-maker is lockboxes, Zen sales and the C-Store.

I'm not opposed to Cryptic making money, and if they're doing OK out of STO then I'm genuinely happy for them and the players - but every time I see the latest hare-brained scheme they've cooked up for the latest Season I can't help anymore but roll my eyes and think 'Really? That's the best you can do? With this IP?'
Please join our peaceful protest to help make STO a better game
Proudly not contributing to PWE's bottom-line since October 2012
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 969
# 7
12-17-2012, 07:50 PM
Arts and entertainment is subjective. Even though one person may like a movie, another individual may not like it at all. If you have to compare one product to another, rationalizing your personal preference, the only thing you are doing is executing a political spin.

"Yeah, cigarettes are bad for your health; however, using cocaine affects you a hundred times faster". Here is the irony... Both cigarettes and cocaine are horrible for your health, period.

You either do or do not like "Star Trek: Online".

I am indifferent. While I like certain aspects about "Star Trek: Online", I also see elements I completely and utterly despise. After Cryptic put the Season Six and Seven's changes into place, I found that my dislikes outnumber my likes. Instead of continuing to rant or leave feedback, I have decided to do the next best thing. I am taking a "Star Trek: Online" hiatus. Within four to five months from now, I will come back to see if Cryptic has learned any lessons.

My days of leaving any feedback are now over. Since I do not get paid for helping them to come up with ideas, I have decided to keep my thoughts private. Cryptic's success and failure are not on my shoulders, so I am removing myself from the equation. If Cryptic happens to add something I like, I will return in four to five months to have some fun. I will continue to monitor the forums and blogs, so I can determine when is a good time to return.

Regardless about how their services compare with the competition, the most important thing is if Cryptic's products appeal to me. Without an entertaining game attached to those services, the pricing and availability of products becomes meaningless. $60 can buy me an awesome piece of entertainment, and $100+ can buy me a horrible piece of garbage. Its all about what appeals to my personal tastes.

"Star Trek: Online's" latest changes do not excite my passions.

Last edited by linyive; 12-17-2012 at 08:16 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,425
# 8
12-17-2012, 08:57 PM
I agree with the OP that TOR's f2p is not worth playing. I am huge Trekker and a fan of SW. I also loved BW previous work. I unsubbed after they announced f2p at the end of July. I was convinced that they seemed to be stringing us alone and using our dues to pay for the conversion. 8 months of almost no content proved that to me. I am quite content to purchase zen ... But I won't pay the extortion money they call cartel coins.

Live long and prosper!
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 236
# 9
12-17-2012, 09:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sekritagent View Post

The macrotransactions (that's right, there's NOTHING micro about the Z-Store), lockbox scams, and the starbase grind are easy enough to ignore or spend your entire life playing to advance.
Yeah, but if you really don't wanna spend any money in STO, you don't have to. You get a pretty good ship at T4, weapons and gear is earned in-game. So you can have a pretty decent setup for a casual player who logs in once in a while.

Only if you are vain enough to be seen in the latest lockbox ship, or wanna become james bond lookalike with the formal attire set, or you want to deck out your entire ship with all the available unique consoles out there, then you gotta pay. Makes perfect sense doesn't it? Want more? Pay up.

While I agree that zen store items are overly expensive, lockboxes are gambling, etc etc but they're not fundamentally important.

TOR's f2p, LOTRO's f2p all restricts you for content and access. Who is genius enough to limit XP gained as a f2p (TOR)? And restrict which dungeon you can play and which dungeon you can't play (LOTRO)?

STO is truly F2P, pay only for customizations and if you want more. There's no such thing as a free lunch anyway right?
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,769
# 10
12-17-2012, 09:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by avarseir View Post
5. You can't alt-tab this game and switch your windows quickly.. means you can't play this in the office!! I've been playing STO during work hours and was able to switch between windows fairly quickly
Set the game to Fullscreen (windowed) (or the contrary) in the options. You'll have a fullscreen game, and you'll be able to alt tab as fast as it was windowed, IE with no loading screen and instant. I wish it was the default option, it's the one that makes the more sense...

Quote:
Originally Posted by avarseir View Post
TOR's f2p, LOTRO's f2p all restricts you for content and access. Who is genius enough to limit XP gained as a f2p (TOR)? And restrict which dungeon you can play and which dungeon you can't play (LOTRO)?
Well, since you can have everything a vip have, while spending less than the LTS, it's a fair deal. Or simply skip the content you don't like, while buying the rest.
Dunno about LOTRO, but I know for sure that on DDO you were able to have the whole game like a vip, without spending any cash. For free. Forever. Ofc, it was a grind, but it's still the best deal I've seen so far.

Last edited by erei1; 12-17-2012 at 09:58 PM.
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