Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 140
I really dont get it. On my Eng I have my Threat Generation skill maxed so most of the time I can agro targets off my allies after just my first shot. But I keep finding these tac officers flying escorts that no matter how much I try to agro whats killing them I cant. The only reason I can come up with is that they also have their Threat skill set pretty high. But why? I see too many escorts that try to do both DPS AND tank.

Usually they do really well, for about 10 sec until all their buffs run out and then they turn to toilet paper. So I ask again, can any escort Captains out their tell me why you like to tank in your tiny ships so much? I mean I fly a massive cruiser that its only purpose is to scream "Hey shoot me shoot me!!" Why do you want to take my job?
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,304
# 2
11-30-2012, 05:39 PM
Because you are the exception to the rule, in that you have thought about team play, and are prepared to do the job of being the tank. Awesome. I hope I get to play with you some day. Players like you are rare.

I am set up to "tank" best I can till I blow up because most Cruiser players don't think like you.
Most players don't think toward team play sadly, and so the answer to your question is

Don't like it. Have just gotten used to it, because "team players" ,outside of fleet events with your premade team, don't really exist for the most part.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 119
# 3
11-30-2012, 06:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gilion View Post
I really dont get it. On my Eng I have my Threat Generation skill maxed so most of the time I can agro targets off my allies after just my first shot. But I keep finding these tac officers flying escorts that no matter how much I try to agro whats killing them I cant. The only reason I can come up with is that they also have their Threat skill set pretty high. But why? I see too many escorts that try to do both DPS AND tank.

Usually they do really well, for about 10 sec until all their buffs run out and then they turn to toilet paper. So I ask again, can any escort Captains out their tell me why you like to tank in your tiny ships so much? I mean I fly a massive cruiser that its only purpose is to scream "Hey shoot me shoot me!!" Why do you want to take my job?
We don't, we just don't have a choice. An good Escort that's doing what it does can generate more threat than the average Cruiser with points in Threat Generation due to the extreme damage that Escorts can deal, there's not much they can do about it to reduce aggro.
On the other hand if you aren't holding aggro but want to help then I can't tell you how much easier it makes things for the Escort if the Cruiser throws heals and resists at me: hit me with ES, TSS or HE with the occasional Eng Team and I'll be right beside you killing everything that looks at you funny. Unfortunately I can't remember the last time I got a heal from a Cruiser, although Escort's are usually a little more free with their heals IME: they probably don't want to hold the aggro either.
_________________________________________
Concessimus etiam omnibus liberis hominibus regni nostri, et dedit pro nobis et heredibus nostris in perpetuum, quibus libertates subscriptas, habendas et tenendas eis et heredibus suis de nobis et heredibus nostris in perpetuum.

Last edited by mwgacy1; 11-30-2012 at 06:37 PM.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 346
# 4
11-30-2012, 06:26 PM
Are you sure they have Threat Control?

That's the thing, you never know if someone does or not. My Tac/'scort has 0 Threat Control, I take care to avoid the DOFF assignment that gives it and so on, but still... I always end up tanking, so we might have been in the same STF, you thinking I have Threat Control and I thinking you're not bothered about tanking and have none.
On my Cruisers, though, I have no difficulty holding Threat... when I engage soon enough (not always easy with Bortie).

Tips for better threat-generation:
1. You need to do some damage. Nobody's expecting you to rival the Escorts, but you still need to do some damage; so try run with 125 Weapon Power all the time. Of course, it's best if you max Shields as well; not that hard in a Cruiser.
Threat Control is a multiplier, if there's nothing to multiply, one generates little threat.


2. Distance, distance, distance.
Unless you're running a Torpedo build (mostly for SVs, not Cruisers), try to stay within 2-3km of your target.
You'll do more damage, thus you'll generate more Threat.
You'll also take more damage, but that's the point: if the whole team is staying 9.75km away from the Tac Cube, anyone can tank, even an Escort with almost no survival tools, no need for a big Cruiser; but up close, the big Cruiser makes a lot of difference.


3. Some Sci abilities generate a lot of Threat.
This isn't availlable to all Cruisers, but some of the higher-level Sci abilities (Grav Well, Tyken's...) seem to generate inordinate amounts of threat: even parsing terribly with a Sci/Sci build, I used to get the attention of enemies. Not mobs of them (obviously, an AoE will aggro them all), but big single targets like Gates and Tac Cubes.

So, if you have a Cruiser with a LC Universal, you could try it.

Last edited by quiscustodiet; 11-30-2012 at 06:32 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 891
# 5
11-30-2012, 08:15 PM
I'd say maybe one in 50 cruiser pilots can actually consistently hold aggro off my escort, and I don't have any points in threat... and most of those cruisers are tacs running aggressive DPS platforms in addition to the threat skill. Oftentimes if its a gate or the ISE tac cube, I'll let the cruisers get a buffer before unloading; but it's just a matter of time. Anything else is easily tankable by an escort for extended periods of time.

Bottom line, an eng running a tank heavy build isn't going to generate enough threat against a top tier escort pilot, with or without the escort having threat control.

Last edited by xantris; 11-30-2012 at 08:18 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,545
# 6
11-30-2012, 11:50 PM
Best way to generate and hold threat is to first off, have points in threat control. That's engi-cruiser 101. You have that down it seems, so good job. Secondly, heal your allies. As time goes on, your healing will cause you to be higher on the priority list, so that will allow you to draw aggro. Lastly, up close and personal, BFAW, and TS are great ways to hold aggro once you have it. If you can keep all your weapons on the target, it helps, since if you have threat control, and at least 90 weapons power, you can generate quite a bit.

And if an escort still draws aggro off of you, then that just means that either 1) they're an idiot and got points in TC, or 2) they just have that much raw firepower. If it's #2, then there really isn't much you can do.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Tired of Wasting EC and Time trying to get Superior Romulan Operative BOffs? Here's a cheap and easy way to get them, with an almost 100% chance of success.
Why the Devs can't make PvE content harder.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,390
# 7
12-01-2012, 12:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by quiscustodiet View Post
Are you sure they have Threat Control?

That's the thing, you never know if someone does or not. My Tac/'scort has 0 Threat Control, I take care to avoid the DOFF assignment that gives it and so on, but still... I always end up tanking, so we might have been in the same STF, you thinking I have Threat Control and I thinking you're not bothered about tanking and have none.
On my Cruisers, though, I have no difficulty holding Threat... when I engage soon enough (not always easy with Bortie).

Tips for better threat-generation:
1. You need to do some damage. Nobody's expecting you to rival the Escorts, but you still need to do some damage; so try run with 125 Weapon Power all the time. Of course, it's best if you max Shields as well; not that hard in a Cruiser.
Threat Control is a multiplier, if there's nothing to multiply, one generates little threat.


2. Distance, distance, distance.
Unless you're running a Torpedo build (mostly for SVs, not Cruisers), try to stay within 2-3km of your target.
You'll do more damage, thus you'll generate more Threat.
You'll also take more damage, but that's the point: if the whole team is staying 9.75km away from the Tac Cube, anyone can tank, even an Escort with almost no survival tools, no need for a big Cruiser; but up close, the big Cruiser makes a lot of difference.


3. Some Sci abilities generate a lot of Threat.
This isn't availlable to all Cruisers, but some of the higher-level Sci abilities (Grav Well, Tyken's...) seem to generate inordinate amounts of threat: even parsing terribly with a Sci/Sci build, I used to get the attention of enemies. Not mobs of them (obviously, an AoE will aggro them all), but big single targets like Gates and Tac Cubes.

So, if you have a Cruiser with a LC Universal, you could try it.

This is good advice.

Ignoring any of this as an Engineer in a Cruiser means that even a Tac with 0 points in threat control can in fact strip you of aggro.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 144
# 8
12-01-2012, 02:39 AM
The sad fact is: Nobody needs an eng cruiser to tank. Any skilled tac escort pilot can tank as well an do much more damage. I'm a tac and fly an cruiser by my self, however, it is the fleet Vorcha battle cruiser with dual cannons. The damage output of the ship is close to any escort, but provide more survivability, combined with moderate turn rates. The fleet vorcha is however an exception among the cruisers.

Escpacially with beams as fed cruiser tend to use you will have problems to draw agro because of the low damage compared to cannons.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,593
# 9
12-01-2012, 02:56 AM
Said it before will say it again

Escorts and especially tac escorts EXIST to draw fire and protect the big guns
thats what escorts do

they run cover
you are basically a glorified fighter ship /gun ship

your main function in an escort is to engage smaller faster vessels so the big boys can pound the hell out of everything else

The Cruisers and the carriers those are the ships that win or lose the big battles
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,561
# 10
12-01-2012, 03:31 AM
sometimes i just can't help it. i tend to use torp spread and CSV, the result is aggro from 5+ targets without threatcontrol skilled in any shape or form.

i plan to get the thread reduction console as soon as i can afford it.

If i get aggro and see i'm out of heals i tend to run to a save distance, sometimes thats all it takes to tank a tac cube. I stay out of it's range, while the rest of the team can fire on it undisturbed. Once somebody from the team took aggro, i return with an alpha strike.

it is not ideal to be basically idle for 1 min, but on the otherhand i don't die and the rest of the team is undesturbed pounding the tac cube.

i do have an engi tank in a tac oddy though, which can basically park near an elite tac cube...without any great efforts to stay alive.
Go pro or go home
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:52 AM.