Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,249
# 1 a really, really sick idea...
01-02-2013, 12:35 AM
This is a sick idea on the same vein as the retrofit of the B'rel for KDF-that is, take a tier 1 ship, do a retro on it, release it to the public for money.

It originates in another place, of course-the fact that CBS won't allow an 'advanced' Constitution-class. Nobody said ANYTHING about disallowing an advanced version of the Miranda...

Light Cruiser Retrofit
Price: 2000z
faction: Federation

Hull: 20,000
Shield Modifier: 1
Weapons: 4f/3r
Turn: 12
Impulse Mod: 2.5
Crew: 200

Stations:

LT Tac
CDR Eng
LTC Sci
LT Eng
Ens Tac

Items:4

Consoles:
4 Eng
3 Sci
3 Tac

Special abilities: can mount Dual Cannons/DHC (per Tier 1 version)
Special Console: (not sure about this one)"Picard Manuever"

Skins: Miranda/Shikahr/Centair/Reliant

Notes: as the Klingon war dragged on, Starfleet began needing to reactivate mothballed ships to replace losses along the Klingon front-a need made MORE intense by renewed Borg activity and the losses on the Defera front. Engineers at Utopia Planitia initiated a desperate crash programme to bring old hulls up to modern standards, including several thousand remaining Miranda class vessels. Structural modifications and improvements to warp technology were incorporated into vessels that had last seen service prior to the Dominion War.

By the time these retrofitted ships left the docks, they were practically and for all intents and purposes, a new class of vessel, a decision finalized in late 2412 with the rechristening of these retrofits as the "Reliant" class.

with manueverability on a par with the Klingons' best cruisers, and significant improvements to their armament, including the incorporation of Utopian Arms PC-152 heavy phaser cannons, the Reliant class is, effectively, a cruiser with the manueverability and weapons of an Escort, but at a fraction of the cost.

Unfortunately, the hull strength of these "Light Cruisers" is ALSO on a par with the standard Heavy Escorts and Tactical Escorts they were constructed to support. As a stop-gap measure to supplement dwindling stocks of dedicated escort vessels, the Reliant programme seemed on the verge of failure-however, their excellent manueverability and armament, and exceptional shielding and self-repair capacities proved that these vessels, even crewed by hastily trained reservists, have the ability to take on the cream of the Klingon Empire's fleets, and their innate usefulness in other roles, including exploration and logistical support, along with their low relative cost in resources and quick turnaround, has bought time for the advanced Vesta, Odyssey, and Excelsior retrofit programmes, as well as buying time for the trials of the Chimera class destroyer programme.

Starfleet Command is considering letting new bids for a new production run of vessels of this type as existing mothball stocks and conversion of existing (obselete) light cruisers begin to run out.

Fleet Light Cruiser: Reliant/Miranda

Price: 4 Fleet modules 1 Ship provision
Tier 3 shipyard
Faction: Federaton

Hull:22000
Shield Mod: 1
Turn: 13
Impulse mod:2.7
Crew: 220

Weapons: 4/4


Stations:
LTC Tac
CDR ENG
LTC Sci
Lt. Eng
Ens Uni

Items: 4

Consoles:
3 Sci
3 Tac
4 Eng

Can mount Dual cannons

The Fleet Retrofit Reliant/Miranda light cruiser is the "new Build" version of the retrofitted model initially planned and implemented as a substitute standard vessel for the renewed hostilities of the Klingon war. Unlike the true retrofits, this model is built with modern materials and advanced techniques from the keel up. Engineering changes included an improved manuevering thruster package, a full engine upgrade, and improved tactical stations and weapons control circuitry. This improved light cruiser is fully intended to serve Starfleet's needs as a front-line combat vessel supplementing existing and planned Escort groups, Convoy security, Colony patrol and long-range liason missions. As a cruiser designed primarily to fight Klingon and Breen raiding forces, it is a rarity in Starfleet's arsenal-a dedicated combat cruiser intended to tangle directly with the KDF's array of fast, manueverable, cannon-armed heavy cruisers. To this end, it is a cruiser built more like an Escort, while retaining the ability to serve as a proper cruiser.


I know, I know...I'm a very, very sick man...
"when you're out of Birds of Prey, you're out of ships."

I play KDF, because being a genocidal maniac works better with Klingons, than explaining it as a member of Starfleet.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,464
# 2
01-02-2013, 01:03 AM
Surprisingly, I find myself liking the idea of a T5 Miranda. I wouldn't mind seeing one in the C Store. However, It appears that your suggested hull is on the level of BoPs. Maybe bump them up a little, at least to Vesta or Defiant levels?

Also, your suggested fleet version has 13 Boff slots. IIRC, all current ships have only 12.

Oh yes, and your cstore version has 10 consoles instead of 9.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 961
# 3
01-02-2013, 01:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickngo View Post

I know, I know...I'm a very, very sick man...
Yes, you are sick.

It's subpar all around, even the fleet version.

-The hull is too low for any cruiser/escort hybrid, even less than the sucky non-Fleet Aquarius escort.

-A 2.5 impulse modifier is insane. Are you sure that's not a typo?

-And what kind of ship gets an EXTRA weapon slot at Fleet grade? It goes against everything shown so far in STO ship design.

-Why 10 consoles on a C-store ship? Also crazy. 10-console ships are historically fleet/box/lobi/event-only, and the only exception so far is the Steamrunner, which is at minimum as expensive as any other current C-store ship (2500z/$25).

-Also, the Picard Maneuver was executed in a Stargazer, not a Miranda. Pick something from DS9 instead. Maybe the "blow up with your loved one on board" console?

-Basically, what is this ship supposed to be? Your text suggests it is a match for the best Klink cruisers (Vor'chas and Ktingas), but the stats suggest a sub-par BoP with some crazy design choices.

And finally, I have objections to this on a lore and aesthetic level.

-On lore, there's no canonically sound reason the Miranda-class, or derivatives thereof could become the Fed equivalent of a BoP, even in the 25th century.

As from Memory Alpha:
"The mission profile of the Miranda-class varied from performing various scientific roles to conducting patrol duties. (Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan; TNG: "Night Terrors"; Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home; DS9: "In the Cards") By the latter half of the 24th century, one variation of this class was known by the designation of Class 6 Federation supply ship. (TNG: "Unnatural Selection")"
-About the only justification for such a change would be the Miranda's performance of "escort" duties during the Dominion War.

-I also object to yet another case of an ancient ship becoming one of Starfleet's best. It's already bad enough that the Excelsior is one of the best cruisers in the game, we don't need ANOTHER of the Enterprise-A's contemporaries outclassing the Federation's latest. If Cryptic were to introduce this type of ship, it should NOT be compatible with the existing Miranda-class skin (which, sadly, is the TRUE reason you lot want this scow).

More ORIGINAL designs, please, not these nostalgia-bait clunkers.

Last edited by unangbangkay; 01-02-2013 at 01:40 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 537
# 4
01-02-2013, 01:42 AM
It would be really awesome if the bought starter ships scaled with you. The only exceptions would be the Steamrunner(because of the T5 Retrofit that comes with it) and the Miranda. The only thing that would make a scaled Steamrunner viable is if it came with universal boff choices. Might also get people to stop asking for a T5 connie.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 961
# 5
01-02-2013, 01:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by xigbarg View Post
It would be really awesome if the bought starter ships scaled with you. The only exceptions would be the Steamrunner(because of the T5 Retrofit that comes with it) and the Miranda. The only thing that would make a scaled Steamrunner viable is if it came with universal boff choices. Might also get people to stop asking for a T5 connie.
Pfft, a T5 Miranda would only make them whine even more. Their current justification is that there's a T5 Excelsior. What more if yet another geriatric jalopy starts kicking ass in the future?

I swear, Star Trek is supposed to be science-fiction, but its fans seem to only be concerned with necromancy.
Captain
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 537
# 6
01-02-2013, 01:59 AM
Well throughout the movies, wasn't the Enterprise constantly refitted to continue to serve it duty? I would imagine that those with the NX, Obreth, and TOS connie would do the same over the course of the game seeing as they are just replicas. But can only be upgrade so much that it will always be sub par to same rank vessels. Besides, if they can make the defiant a power house, i'm sure they can do the same for everyone's beginner ships.

Once again, the Miranda and the Steamrunner(T1) shouldn't be allowed to scale.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,140
# 7
01-02-2013, 02:20 AM
http://www.neutralzone.de/database/F..._Bozeman04.htm

definately a design i would want to see in STO, but i have to agree with those saying they do not want a 23rd century ship outclassing 25th century ones. But then again, it shouldn't be a problem to refit a 100 year old ship to state of the art systems in the 25th century.

what role could this ship take? additional escort? maybe, same boff setup as the steamrunner, so the boff layout is available to people who have no interest in buying the steam starter pack.
Go pro or go home
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 961
# 8
01-02-2013, 02:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by xigbarg View Post
Well throughout the movies, wasn't the Enterprise constantly refitted to continue to serve it duty? I would imagine that those with the NX, Obreth, and TOS connie would do the same over the course of the game seeing as they are just replicas. But can only be upgrade so much that it will always be sub par to same rank vessels. Besides, if they can make the defiant a power house, i'm sure they can do the same for everyone's beginner ships.

Once again, the Miranda and the Steamrunner(T1) shouldn't be allowed to scale.
The TOS Enterprise was retrofitted ONCE, before it got blown up, then REPLACED with the Enterprise-A, an updated version of the same class (which looked different, by the way). After that it was REPLACED with an Excelsior, the -B, then an Ambassador, the -C, then a Galaxy, the -D, then a Sovereign, the -E, and then in STO, an Odyssey, the -F. And in terms of ship lifetime, each Enterprise lasted an average of 30 years (the exception being the -D, which lasted about 12).

Of course, one ship designation's career is much different than the viability of the lines they belong to (especially for ships with as eventful timelines as the Enterprise), but the Miranda and Excelsior are CENTURIES old. Even in real life the oldest-serving ship designs last 40-50 years at best.

Honestly, I LIKE those designs, but a line MUST be drawn somewhere. I believe the "HEAH" for that line should be at making such ancient ship hulls equivalent in performance to the newest hotness, retrofitting be damned (like torpedoes).

Plus, Replicas are one thing, Retrofits and Refits are another. The official definition (again from mem Alpha) of "Refit" is basically a major change that also alters the structure/appearance of the ship. A retrofit preserves the original design while updating the internals and capabilities.

The NX, Oberth and T1 Connie are described as prestige projects undertaken by the SCE using the fancy new modular ship construction system. That's fair enough.

The Miranda is a newb ship because it and its derivatives are such reliable workhorses that they're useful for low-impact duty, just like how some National Guard units still use M113 APCs or M60 Patton tanks. But making them comparable to Starfleet's latest and greatest.

Besides, the Steamrunner and most of the "from TNG-era" retrofits are at best 50 years old. That's far more reasonable a service life than centenarians like the Excelsior and Miranda.

But fine, FINE. Nostalgia is a powerful force, especially in this blasted IP. I will accept a T5 and/or Fleet Miranda, but ONLY on the condition that it be classified as a REFIT, and that its default skin be an ORIGINAL design by Cryptic, in the manner of the Regent, Sao Paolo, Venture, and similar.

Quote:
what role could this ship take? additional escort? maybe, same boff setup as the steamrunner, so the boff layout is available to people who have no interest in buying the steam starter pack.
From the stats cited and the description the OP wanted either a copy of a Klink Vorcha or a Federation equal to a BoP. I say nuts to the latter. Any ship that wants to be as badass as a BoP needs a BoP-style layout (lotsa universals), and needs to LOOK more aggressive than the Miranda. A Fed-side BoP should look more like the Maelstrom skin on the Fleet Patrol Escort, or something similarly "angry".

Last edited by unangbangkay; 01-02-2013 at 02:59 AM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 247
# 9
01-02-2013, 04:05 AM
wooohoooo fleet patrol set up! with another tac console slot and an eng console with two slots hmm whats above ensign? anywho that would be awesome, I'm talking nutbloobies! All power to the great Patrol Escort!
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,249
# 10
01-02-2013, 09:29 AM
ahem, disclaimer;
"I was only kidding".

the kidding in this case was based a lot on seeing some of the proposed layouts for the Ambassador, as well as pointing at the oft-repeated calls for a T5 Connie refit.

so I rode the edge of munch on the consoles and stations, and apparently slipped over once or twice.

as for the hull numbers: look at the T1 ships (Centaur, Miranda) again- those have a hull of 10,000.

so it's DOUBLE that.
"when you're out of Birds of Prey, you're out of ships."

I play KDF, because being a genocidal maniac works better with Klingons, than explaining it as a member of Starfleet.
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