Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 82
# 151 Design/Layout Idea
01-15-2013, 08:05 PM
I know something almost similar was suggested but was toying with an idea for a layout... and the idea is similar in a lot of respecs to the Nebula class... anyway heres the thought:

38,500 Hull Health(42,500 Fleet)
8 Base Turn
1.15 Shield Modifier(1.15 Fleet)
4 Device Slots

800 Base Crew

4 Fore Weapons
4 Aft Weapons

Lieutenant Commander Engineer
Ensign Engineer
Lieutenant Commander Science
Ensign Science
Lieutenant Tactical(Possible Universal)
Lieutenant Tactical

3 Engineering Console Slots (4 Fleet)
3 Science Console Slots
3 Tactical Console Slots

+5 Power to all subsystems
(Possible Hanger)

Fairly well rounded, a jack of all trades idea. Excelling really at a whole lot of nothing but being older why not. It also fills a gap for tanking cruisers lacking a Lieutenant Commander Science Station. Could even add a hanger. Cruisers still need one of those honestly. Escorts and Science got em, why not us Cruiser drivers eh? That would easily make up for the lack of a Commander Station. I dont see where this set up were be OP, and with a hanger would put it on par with everything else. Course a Cruiser with a Hanger would then be a frigate, but at least it'd be a true frigate. I'd spend money on this set up very easily and wouldn't feel to bad about it. Its got some limitation, and some draw backs like the rest of the line up but its more or less a ship onto its own due to its lack of a commander console. I know most of you would hate that, but this set up lends itself to being very versatile. Could call this a Light Cruiser or Frigate (if Hanger Equipped). Primary uses are obviously support/light escort.

Last edited by rumblep; 01-16-2013 at 02:40 PM.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 948
# 152
01-16-2013, 03:29 AM
We need a cruiser with LTCM Science. The reason I think it should have an Ensign Tac is because it comes from a war time era with Romulans.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 5,772
# 153
01-16-2013, 11:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rumblep View Post
8 Base Turn

Lieutenant Commander Engineer
Lieutenant Commander Science
Lieutenant Tactical(Possible Universal)
Lieutenant Tactical

3 Engineering Console Slots (4 Fleet)
3 Science Console Slots(4 Fleet)
3 Tactical Console Slots

(Possible Hanger)
So, while your idea is interesting, the things I left in your quote feel...off to me.

1. 8 base turn is on-par with the Excelsior. If a fairly large ship like that could turn so well, then so should other cruisers. It needs to be put down a point to 7.

2. The consoles and BOFF layout...while that is indeed a jack-of-all-trades, such a thing is also very powerful. You give up only a Cmdr Engineering slot, to gain a considerable of medium-high level powers. In short, it gives up very little to slot a lot of good stuff: VM, Gravity Well, EWP, two Lt. tac powers, and so on.

3. The hangar. It is true that there is no Fed cruiser with a hangar, I just don't necessarily feel like this ship HAS to have a hangar.

All in all, just feels like this ship is giving up very little and gaining a lot in your proposal.


Why are all of STO's EPs named 'Steve'?
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,679
# 154
01-16-2013, 12:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rumblep View Post
38,500 Hull Health(42,500 Fleet)
8 Base Turn
1.15 Shield Modifier(1.15 Fleet)
4 Device Slots

800 Base Crew

4 Fore Weapons
4 Aft Weapons

Lieutenant Commander Engineer
Ensign Engineer
Lieutenant Commander Science
Ensign Science
Lieutenant Tactical(Possible Universal)
Lieutenant Tactical

3 Engineering Console Slots (4 Fleet)
3 Science Console Slots(4 Fleet)
3 Tactical Console Slots

+5 Power to all subsystems
(Possible Hanger)
No.

Reasons:
1.15 shield mod on your base design? This is a cruiser. That's too high. Reduce to 1.0. You have 14 BOff ability slots. Um... no. The max is 13. Also, a double LtCmdr? Did you not read the thread before this point? Double LtCmdr makes the ship too versatile. And before you say "well you lose the Cmdr Engineering", don't even try that. The number of useful Cmdr Engineering abilities right now is pretty much just 2. Aux2SIF3 and RSP3. Not gonna fly. So I am going to have to say no to that as well. As for consoles, that's acceptable. Until you look at the fleet version with 11 consoles. Yeeeeeeeah no. Why does this ship deserve 11 consoles? It doesn't. And no hangar. Enough with the cruisers having hangars. It's bad enough they put on on the Armitage (an escort) and the Vesta (a science ship). Hangars should have stayed with Carriers.

What you did right:
+5 power to all subsystems. Typical of a cruiser, and a good design. High hull. Also good for a cruiser. The 8 turn rate had me annoyed when I first looked at it, but then I remembered that this ship was very small, so it having a higher turn rate made sense. Weapon count, device slots, and crew are also acceptable.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Why the Devs can't make PvE content harder. <--- DR proved me wrong!
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 658
# 155
01-16-2013, 01:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hereticknight085 View Post
No.

Reasons:
1.15 shield mod on your base design? This is a cruiser. That's too high. Reduce to 1.0. You have 14 BOff ability slots. Um... no. The max is 13. Also, a double LtCmdr? Did you not read the thread before this point? Double LtCmdr makes the ship too versatile.
You need to look again. The total number of ability slots is 3+1+3+1+2+2=12, an Assault Cruiser has 4+3+1+2+2=12, that's the same. 2 LtCmdr slots per ship is also standard, usually both are in the primary role of the ship (for a cruiser, Eng), but there is plenty of precedent for putting one in another role (Armitage, MVAE, Regent, Excelsior, D'Kora, Galor, D'Kyr, Nebula, and Fleet Nova). The only really weird thing this does is trade the Cmdr slot for an Ens one.

On the shield modifier, that is the modifier of the free Ody, which occupied this exact position last year. This vessel having the same one is not unreasonable. You are right on the consoles, although I don't agree with your idea on hangars, the real question is whether there should be a KDF-style flight deck cruiser on the Fed side.

All that said, this isn't really what I'd like to see. I'd really like the Ambassador to be a real 7 eng slot cruiser with good mobility, but that's really just me selfishly wanting that for my own roster. The OP's layout with a turn rate of 8, an inertia rating of about 25 or 20, and maybe a universal ensign (the Ody does get LtC uni) would seem like a reasonable addition to the cruiser list and would fill that role for me.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 82
# 156
01-16-2013, 02:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mimey2 View Post
1. 8 base turn is on-par with the Excelsior. If a fairly large ship like that could turn so well, then so should other cruisers. It needs to be put down a point to 7.
Also the heavy cruiser has a turn of 8. As for others, there are ones that are higher. Strictly talking cruisers here... the connie is 9, TOS connie 10, Miranda 11, Assault is 7. Need i say more?

and in general I agree but with out the majority of lvl 3 in both sci and eng. I dont see where i'd be OP, also has the traditional 12 bridge officer powers like any other ship. I grant you its a bit of a new idea, but you should also notice that its the lightest weight cruiser in this set up hull wise. Only slightly more then a Nebula and slightly less then the star cruiser. Concidering the excelsior is longer, the basic volume taken up in space concidering the Ambassadors width should keep the weight roughly the same, same goes with the heavy cruiser, some of its varients are smaller then both of those ships so I dont see a problem mathmatically with a turn of 8. Further the bridge officer console set up, i dont see where thats going to make it op in anyway. the console counts are identical to current t5 ships. To remove one would make it UP. The idea in the console area is to make it on par with current ships. Again you point out the excelsior, its on par with the assault cruisers (soverign). This set up is designed to keep this ship roughly on par with its counter parts. having that set up keeps it from excelling in tanking next to a real tank like the current cruisers while increasing its healing abilities through the science end of it to keep it in a fight. I think you'd be surprised but this ship by rights shouldn't take the punishment of the current cruisers in game unless you dedicate all of the engineering and science abilities to healing. 3 tactical consoles puts it on par with the assault cruisers for dps out put, but it still lacks dual cannons keeping it from beating out escorts. As stated this ship is a light cruiser, and with the addition of the hanger it shifts from light cruiser to frigate which is still just a light cruiser/light destroyer with a helo deck in current modern ships on the water. Theres no way this ship can compete in any one area with any one type, but its versatility should keep it usable. I dont see where this would be the prefered option of the player base in STF/PVP/PVE play really as the ship is a jack of all trades and the toons playing them would be forced, just to be viable, to set up their bridges that way. The ideal with this set up would be to use -threat consoles and use it to offer fire support to the tanks/healers and limitied healing/cc for the group. That would free up the healer to concentrate on healing and the escorts to do what they do best. This is a straight up harasser/interdiction design, nothing more nothing less. I seriously doubt it could stand up to a cube on its own for long, much less a tac cube for instance in instance play. The tholian carriers that most of us reguard as limp and easy would also be a bit of a challenge for this ship but not impossible. The console set up in general is to give it functionality for all classes to use effectively while keeping it from being OP, i think in a live test, you'd feel her limitations. It'd be almost like the chimera, sort of a gimick but somewhat effective. Personally i wouldn't even give this ship a "every body can use this console" but i'm sure it'll get one anyway. the power in this ship is its versatility to fit and respond to a given situation, but I seriously doubt anybody would be dumb enough to try to use this as the fore runner of an engagement PVP/PVE or otherwise. Its just not strong enough. Even with the 1.15 shield. Those wont last long, and once they are gone, she's tissue paper. With full skill in structural integ. she ought to be up around 42000ish hull health for the standard model, maybe 48000ish with the fleet model. The galaxy has 55,000 and 60,000 respectively. I know those for a fact as I use them constantly.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 82
# 157
01-16-2013, 02:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hereticknight085 View Post
Reasons:
1.15 shield mod on your base design?
Tell that to the Oddy. The rest are running 1.1 and 1.0 with the exception of the heavy cruiser running 0.95. Also, pay attention to the hull health level.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hereticknight085 View Post
You have 14 BOff ability slots.
Look at your own ship, its 12, not 13 not 14, 12. Theres only 12 here, count again.

Here i'll help. LT Cmdr 3 (6 total) Ensign 1 (theres 2 of those) Lt 2(that makes 4)

so 6+2=8+4=12

Nuff said?


Quote:
Originally Posted by hereticknight085 View Post
Armitage (an escort) and the Vesta (a science ship). Hangars should have stayed with Carriers.
Perhaps but now that door is open, Cruisers are the only ones who dont have one, you made my case for me.


Quote:
Originally Posted by hereticknight085 View Post
Also, a double LtCmdr?
I would point out that the oddy has a Lt. Cmdr and ensign Universal. Spare me... Never mind its other pluthera of powers. Paired with its Cmdr Eng this is no more or less powerful then that ship powers wise. I'll grant you that two Lt. Cmdr stations is unique but not OP as its been done time and time again in the fashion of Cmdr and Lt. Cmdr Assault cruiser has Cmdr eng and Lt. Cmdr Tac same with excel, the Assault Refit has As similar with the addition of a Lt. Universal. Galaxy doesn't apply as both cmdr and lt cmdr are eng, same for the star cruiser, and the heavy Cruiser. Case, point, and the end.

EDIT:
I did just notice one miner error with my Fleet console counts... 11, should be 10.

to pick on i'd add it to the eng side, just for reference... I do admit mistakes. Sorry... i'll edit it up top to reflect.

Last edited by rumblep; 01-16-2013 at 03:38 PM.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 82
# 158
01-16-2013, 02:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by captainbmoney View Post
We need a cruiser with LTCM Science. The reason I think it should have an Ensign Tac is because it comes from a war time era with Romulans.
where would ya put the extra power, that drops it 1 short from every other end game ship in the game...

I honestly traded the cmdr Eng for the extra power at tactical... or a Lt. Uni station, take your pick. I dont like the idea of the uni cause then it might just be a lil op but would help make it more role specific.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 948
# 159
01-16-2013, 04:02 PM
Ambassador has to have a role. thats why I came up with that setup.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 82
# 160
01-16-2013, 04:07 PM
I agree... every set up has a role, even something as versital as mine. Its not a front runner though, not mine... not ment to be... Honestly our two aren't that different, but yours is more suited to be a galaxy replacement more or less... decent design... just had some miner changes is all. Thought i'd voice em.
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