Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,474
# 21
12-20-2012, 11:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by maicake716 View Post
except it makes the "chance based doff for emergency power cooldown" useless because this is a sure thing every time its used.

also, when there is a doff power that is so far reaching it leaves little room to introduce new doffs.

take the team cooldown doff before it was split into 3.

maybe they need to introduce 2 new boff power-

currently we have aux to batteries. it takes from aux and gives power to the other systems.

why not have boff powers that do that but take power from other systems? example- for science take from engines or weapons, and for tactical take from shields or engines.

then make the aux to battery affect only engineer powers and then make the 2 new powers effect their respective trees- the science one would effect science, the tactical one would effect tacitcal.

and then of course whatever power is drained from would boost the other subsystems.
From a Captain perspective, I can see where Tac can live w/o Aux, Sci can live w/o Weapon, and Eng can live w/o Engines for a brief period and boost all other systems like Aux2Batt does.

Regarding Doff boosts I'd rather see it only boost 1 high end power (Lt Commander) or boost the cooldowns of a couple of Lt/En Slots. How to go about that?, idk given the variety of Boff layouts and hybrid/universal options on ships now. Or have it do nothing to Boff cooldowns and have it reduce Captain power cooldowns SLIGHTLY.

Edit: Given all the other Doffs toes this steps on I'm leaning toward doing away w/Boff cooldowns for Tech doffs and something else. There already are numerous Sci, Tac, Team reducing cooldowns. If anything make them specific to specific Engineering abilities w/long cooldowns like EWP/DEM/Ace Beam and not effect the aux2batt at all. Then introduce Weapons to Batt and Engines to Batt in case people want alternatives to Aux to Batt and then have another group of Doffs have a chanced based effect like there is for EPTX.

Last edited by p2wsucks; 12-20-2012 at 11:21 AM.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,702
# 22
12-20-2012, 01:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thissler View Post
Please don't say that using an aux to bat build weakens a ship significantly due to aux being lower. Use a battery.

Please don't say that using 3 doff slots is a significant opportunity cost. Anyone that stacks doffs uses up 3 slots. So that's not an unusual cost burden to this build. It is not worthy of note. It improves ALL boff abilities. That is unusual to this buid. That is significant.

Using Aux to batt is an actual ability. It has a benefit just from using it, and that benefit isn't small. So although it may not be a stellar ability, it isn't a useless one.

Affecting engineering powers alone would be a GREAT way of nerfing this build. No one would use it. Ever. It would be garbage. I don't see how that would be bad.

This isn't my two cents. I used the change from your two cents that you left on the counter.

It was a nickel.


Cheers and happy reduced cooldowns!!
Batteries will not increase aux levels while a2b drain is avtive, .....nothing will . For an eng to give up Aux2SiF is huge, having 5 -0 aux for significant amounts of time is huge. SO far A2B builds are the only thing in STO spac combat that actually deserves the name "opportunity cost" in the sense it has one. Most Doffs Cd reducing or not don't have anything resembling opportunity cost SNB, DEM....
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,474
# 23
12-20-2012, 02:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by havam View Post
Batteries will not increase aux levels while a2b drain is avtive, .....nothing will . For an eng to give up Aux2SiF is huge, having 5 -0 aux for significant amounts of time is huge. SO far A2B builds are the only thing in STO spac combat that actually deserves the name "opportunity cost" in the sense it has one. Most Doffs Cd reducing or not don't have anything resembling opportunity cost SNB, DEM....
EPtA does restore aux, I just checked. I didn't check if using other aux boostsers after using EPtA to restore are effective, but I would speculate they would.

Also, even if it didn't that drawback is in regards to the Boff ability not the Doff ability. The only opportunity cost of the doffs is other doffs. But, why use other doffs which reduce select Boff cooldowns if you can use Aux2batt and reduce all Boff cooldowns?

Also, what can't Aux2Sif and Aux2Batt be rolled one after the other?

Maybe it's b/c I don't use key binds, but I don't see anything but upside to using this ability and a big one at that.

Edit: I used aux2batt, then epta aux boosted, then aux bat, which did work to max aux ...

Last edited by p2wsucks; 12-20-2012 at 02:32 PM.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,757
# 24
12-20-2012, 03:33 PM
when you run EPtA, your not going to get more then 30 aux power. that makes a HE2 heal about 350 a tic instead of over 1000. if your at that not uncommon 0 aux time, witch actually disables AtB use too and leaves holes in your EPtS pretty often, even an aux bat isnt going to give you more then 75 power. thats still pretty far from the ~120+ an aux batt would give anyone who is not using an AtB build.

lets look at exactly what ships can even make decent use of it

BOP- can but why? AtB gives you more ability up time, but bops tend to not do much hanging around anyway, they go all in and sulk off. a bop that just hangs around uncloaked is gunna get shot at hard. low average aux with a battle cloak? good luck with that.

nebula- here is a great dedicated VM3 or TBR3 boat. but it sorta doesn't do the maneuvering thing all that well. it cant be much of a healer, and cant do a whole lot other then spam vm, and would probably only be all that useful with a tac captain.

vesta- pretty much same as nebula only beter. with the DHC use it can be much more dangerous and only need an LT tac. again proboly only really for a tac captain. this thing would also be damn squishy with low aux heals only.

orb- pretty much the same as vesta and neb

any cruiser- use it with any cruiser and you cant build a good support ship at all. your locked out of AtS, and your aux is in the toilet. this does make tac cruisers into overly durable sub escorts though, but they still cant spike near as well, just put out a ton of pressure.

vet ship- this is the best ship with AtB, and helps counter its deep shortcomings. it effectively is only an 8 console ship, 4 of which are mandatory tac consoles, they have the lowest shield mods of any newish ship, and the 14 turn rate is deep below other escort's after all turn enhancing mods are applied. it can do all sorts of things other escorts cant do, wile still dealing escort level damage, but its still very easy to out fly, and easy to spike to death. it also has below average healing due to again, low aux.

thats pretty much it. only ships that have at least a LT and LTC eng can use AtB at its fullest, ships that have COM and LTC other then eng have no use for it, and no room for it anyway.
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Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 434
# 25
12-20-2012, 03:50 PM
I typically use my important Aux dependent powers right before I pop an Aux2Bat, since that's when my Aux is going to be the highest and it ensures that I get the most out of the cool down reduction (as well as power gain). Granted, that does make a SNB especially dangerous since, in attempting to maximize the cool down reduction, you need to have more abilities in use. But one probably still has other options like Evasives, RSP, Miracle Worker, ST/TT maybe, etc. Besides, the Aux is low for 10 seconds plus a few to get the level back up (barring an item or other ability to recover more quickly). If you use Aux2Bat right before a HE or TSS then it sounds like a tactical error to me.

I haven't been paying as much attention lately so I've lost track of the number of ships with universal slots, particularly Lt Commander universal stations. I suppose I thought there were more than have been listed here but that's still a fair amount and we all know more are coming.

More stations. More abilities. More spam. That's all I really have to say on it. Maybe it's perfectly fine. It seems a bit much to me is all.
__________________________________________
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,474
# 26
12-20-2012, 03:51 PM
I just tested using aux2batt, then epta, then aux batt. It went over 100 aux. I haven't bothered to test w/plas leech or anyother power gain or manually shifiting to a high aux preset b/c at that point why?

The Fleet Torkhat can do a lot of damage using aux2batt while reducing dem3 cooldown to effectively having 2xdem3, same w/rsp1 and nearly the same w/epts3. A player could go the crf2 route for spike or the apo cvs1 route for pressure defense.

Any ship w/a lt Eng and at least another Ens Eng boff slot will be able to run aux2batt w/epts, epta and w/e other boffs they want to reduce the cooldown of at least 30% if not 60% or w/e the shared cooldown is depending on the skills cooldown.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,764
# 27
12-20-2012, 05:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
what is tech doffs and AtB doing to balance? not much of anything. the only thing it really does is make a tac heavy cruiser builds not be piss poor compared to just sticking that tac in an escort. a few of the ships with more spread out stations its nice on though, but the great big disadvantage of having nearly no aux makes healing a pain, and makes almost all sci abilities have almost 0 effectiveness.

it doesn't at all make escorts, heal cruisers, or sci ships better. escorts already have all the tac stations they need to double up skills for full up time, and you cant RSP with it then. same with sci ships, only its even worse, they have no aux to work with at all. heal cruisers? how exactly are they going to heal effectively with no aux? ET3 is only gonna get you so far.

so it only really helps niche builds, and brings them closer to being as viable options as heal cruisers, dps escorts, and control sci ships.

i run mainly 2 AtB ships, because i like niche ships. i get my ass kicked all the time in them too. im no god of death with reduced cooldowns, i'm just nearly as dangerous as a ship in the 3 core roles.
<Stands next DdiS > I agree with you and the use of a AtB build has its on drawbacks. Micromanaging being one of the biggest.

The AtB build idea used to be scoffed at but like any other build idea that did work it was soon adopted and went Fotm.
Its not OP.
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goodbye good friend. We will see you in the DMZ in the sky oneday, save a shot for us.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,372
# 28
12-20-2012, 05:57 PM
Sooooo..... We're arguing if the cost is equal to the benefit? And about increasing aux power... EPtA works, but does A2B reduce battery cooldown? If not, getting over 100 every 2 mins isn't going to help much anyway.

Ah, yes. About the heals, using teams isn't all that effective, given the need for tac team to keep your shields up. AtS is out the window. HE, although quick, is not going to heal much. Therefore, someone using A2B is not going to have any reliable spike hull heals, and will have a pretty low power HE as a HoT. Sure, the shields may be pretty strong, due to RSP and EPtS3, but the hull will be awfully squishy once you get through shields.

Last edited by scurry5; 12-20-2012 at 06:01 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,474
# 29
12-20-2012, 06:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by scurry5 View Post
Sooooo..... We're arguing if the cost is equal to the benefit? And about increasing aux power... EPtA works, but does A2B reduce battery cooldown? If not, getting over 100 every 2 mins isn't going to help much anyway.

Ah, yes. About the heals, using teams isn't all that effective, given the need for tac team to keep your shields up. AtS is out the window. HE, although quick, is not going to heal much. Therefore, someone using A2B is not going to have any reliable spike hull heals, and will have a pretty low power HE as a HoT. Sure, the shields may be pretty strong, due to RSP and EPtS3, but the hull will be awfully squishy once you get through shields.
I used the battary as an example of something else boosting aux after using epta.

HE3 is the biggest hull repair in the game. It's over time though, and boosts resists.

Aux2Sif isn't out the window you can rotate it w/Aux2batt if you really want it.

You can use HE prior to using Aux2batt if needed.

Btw I use all 3 Teams regularly on both my sci and my tac and my sci doesn't use aux2batt.

Really this is just a lot of bad information.

Edit: Just tested again, yep as I thought after using epta you are free to use a max aux preset and get the gains. Not to mention any other power gain there is. So, there really is zero drawback to this.

Last edited by p2wsucks; 12-20-2012 at 06:30 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 13,060
# 30
12-20-2012, 07:54 PM
One of the things that I did not like about using it was that it did not affect the triggered CD.

A = Ability #1
B = Ability #2
X = recharge time for A or B
Y = triggered CD for B if A's used or for A if B's used

Regular gameplay would follow as such:

X > Y
You use A.
You could use B before you could use A again.

AtB gameplay would follow as such:

X < Y
You use A.
You could use A again before you could use B.

In some cases, sure - this works out great. It allows you to replace two of the same ability (treating one as A and one as B) with a single copy. In cases where you weren't running two of the same ability though, but they were abilities that triggered a CD on the other... well, it became pointless - it did nothing for you. You could either use A again, once more triggering the CD on B, or you could wait to use B when it became available as if you weren't using AtB at all.
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