Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,416
# 151
12-26-2012, 12:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by beameddown View Post
Dear Cryptic,

I go into pug pvp and what do I see? Things to watch out for..

escorts, cookie cutter cannon escorts.

3 seconds dead without mousin' over to the tactical team or the reverse shield polarity.

they tell me i suck, that my defense is not high enough, my consoles are not leet enough, that i fly horribly and shouldnt even play the game, they say my first mistake is that i dont have everything keyed to 2 buttons, "my kill button and my defense button macros"

Im told that I should leave the game and go do something with myself, that i need to "play the exchange" to get the money to buy my 4-5 +30% same damage consoles and until i do, i shouldnt even show my face in pvp

Not that I should ever because im not a good pilot, I dont have a awsome computer with a great connection, I dont have the money/time to get the "bug", and I dont have my keyboard macroed up for "I kill/defend button"

In most cases, you get spat at in the face for lack of so much of the above and get swore at alot.

by who?

the top pvp's

now,

when 1 of them dies in a pvp to something they didnt plan for/expect to see in a pvp, we get to read about it here, in these forums

it seems to always come back to this attitude of, (I didnt do anything wrong, I have been killing millions of other players with this ship forever, the ships Min/Maxed, I dont need to change my playstyle or my boff layout, this [insert ability/console/weapon] just plain needs to get nerfed or go away, because there is truly only 1 WAY to build the best escort for all fights in pvp, and I have it already, and it is not about how the ships is built at the top end, its only about piloting skills!!)

I can see the same frustration from British officers in the past when they went up against forces that would not fight lined up on the field but attack with surprise from the woods

It is depressing to read so many posts from many of the most skillful players of this game trying to trim down the ways a person can use an escort (or any of the 3 types) and create this enviroment that only cannon escorts exsist with no special consoles of any kind,

I read, mines need to be taken out of the game, pvp is broken and just needs to go away, this needs fixing, that needs fixing..

What really needs to happen (and by the looks of it, they are doing it at Cryptic) is seeing that pvp is saturated with a paticular cookie cutter build for escorts, and on the forums it is re-wrote and re-wrote again, how to construct this cookie cutter cannon build,

I think the guys and gals at Cryptic looked at this and said, "well, what about these other weapons in the game? do we just phase them out, or try and make them relevant in some way?"

We then see the fixs to torps and mines,

We then see the additional bonuses to plasma (via consoles and neat weapons)

I look forward to what looks to be a great new PVP engine placed into the game, I look forward to the fed and klinks in mixed teams

I guess in the end what I am hopeful for is, that mines, torps, and plasma, (ANY really, of the weapons we generally do not see on a regular basis in pvp) being supported and expanded on, in the hopes that one day, we will see reasons for people to put these weapons on escorts, or dare i say it, place a variety of weapons on their ship besides just a pile of turrets and dual heavy cannons

OH, and I almost forgot,
I would love to also see the abilities from science and engineering become more cooler, its great that science got some love not to long ago, and as a player that was AWSOME! please keep it up and find some more clever ways to bring these interesting Boff abilities back into the fights in PVP

who the heck have you been pvping against? i know none of the "top pvp" people who even remotely act like what youre saying.

the reason the cookie cutter escort is there, is because it works 100% of the time. you dont have to rely on the luck tric hits you dont have to rely on anything but pointing and pulling the trigger.

thats a fatal flaw with this game system. DPS is king, and the more constant and conistant (rapid firing cannons) the better it is compaired to anything else.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mancom View Post
Frankly, I think the only sound advice that one can give new players at this time is to stay away from PVP in STO.
Science pvp at its best-http://www.youtube.com/user/matteo716
Do you even Science Bro?
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 13,665
# 152
12-26-2012, 12:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by beameddown View Post
Dear Cryptic,

I go into pug pvp and what do I see?

/snip

they tell me i suck

/snip

In most cases, you get spat at in the face for lack of so much of the above and get swore at alot.

by who?

the top pvp's
Admittedly I've only played since Jan, and even then I took a break from around Jun-Aug before returning... but um... really?

I see this as a simple case of pics or shens - cause I call BS.

Even with my completely failtastic builds, whether toons, ships, etc - even with my couldn't navigate my way straight across an empty parking lot maneuvering skills - even with my kludgey mix of keybinds and clicking - including all the fat fingering and misclicking...

...I've never been the "victim" of the verbal assault that you portray here.

Mind you, I've seen folks that whine first - accuse other players of cheating, hacking, exploiting, and making all sorts of excuses for why they lost... getting reamed - and some of that reaming being highly entertaining...

...but generally speaking, if you acknowledge your own limitations - seek ways to improve - go looking for advice instead of looking to offer accusations and make excuses - they've always been the most helpful people in the game.

You see, their fun comes from playing against other players - if there aren't other players, they can't have fun can they? PvE folks on the other hand, well - they're just looking to frag some NPCs as fast as they can. The NPCs will always be there. There will always be somebody else doing PvE since it's a PvE game... so the PvE folks tend to be the complete poopshoots - they don't care.

That doesn't mean there aren't fudgefactories in PvP - but odds are they're just a PvE person pretending to PvP or they're that rare person that's just miserable to be around regardless of where they are or what they're doing...

...besides, in regard to this discussion about the Trics.

Just how does Bort mentioning PDS on NPCs a PvP thing? Hrmmm... sounds like it was a PvE thing they were monitoring... oh, like the vast majority of changes that take place - it's a PvE thing, not a PvP thing.


Fleet Admiral Geist, Klingon Science Officer
U.S.S. Arcadia, Benthan Assault Cruiser - U.S.S. Deogen, Phantom Intel Escort
U.S.S. Endless, Hazari Destroyer - U.S.S. Naked Sun, Hirogen Apex Battle Cruiser
Ensign
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 23
# 153 Learn to adapt...
12-26-2012, 01:00 PM
Hello.

I do have an opinion on this issue.

I run a Sci toon that uses tricobalts, as well as a Tac.

One uses mines with no dispersal pattern. The other uses the basest pattern.
They both use tric torpedoes.

I depend on all of my weapons to play effectively. They are synergistic.

As Bort said, you must sacrifice some abilities to be able to use mines with dispersal patterns, as well as weapon slots for the weapons themselves.

That is a decision. It is ours to make. If you want to use the abilities tric weapons provide, you must also accept the drawbacks.

They are but a part of the game.

Conservatively, I can take a shot from Donatra while extending my shields and using HE on another player. I can do this because I have been destroyed by her many times. I learned to adapt my build into what it is today.

I have been reading about this issue in the Forums for a while. It has been proffered by mostly PVPers that tric's are OP. Some PVEers have weighed in citing balance issues.

I put to you that the balance is already engineered in the benefits and drawbacks inherent in the build.

The PVPers I know are some of the most capable and cunning players I have known in the game. They exemplify some of the best skilled play in STO. The absolute best have shown themselves to be able to rise to whatever challenges they find in the PVP arena. These people are capable of taking the weakest of ships and defeating the most powerful of opponents. It is a testament to their skill.

I applaud the Devs for listening to the arguments presented in the Forums. It is good to know that they are paying attention. However, I do not think tric weaponry need to be depowered. They are but a unique flavor, a bright colored strand in the tapestry of the game. I fear to "nerf" them would begin to pave the way to homogenizing game play.

If tricobalts are the habanero in the stew of weapon features and makes it too hot to enjoy, I suggest adding some sugar to one's own build architecture to adjust the taste. Elsewise, we run the risk of eventually sitting down to the same bland entree' night after night.

Thank you for reading my post. I hope it serves to make this wonderful game better.

Regardless, I will find a way to adapt to whatever changes may come.

God be with you all.

Polonious1
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,745
# 154
12-26-2012, 01:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by beameddown View Post
In most cases, you get spat at in the face for lack of so much of the above and get swore at alot.

by who?

the top pvp's
Bull****. The best PvPers are generally very helpful. Hell, look at my siglinks, it's a labor of love from some of those guys. And they do it because they want people to get better at the game. The more people get better the more likely a queue pops. No one wins if more blood isn't added to the population.

That's another reason to hate these retarded mines. They drive away people from the queues! Nothing should do that kind of horsecrap irresistible damage!

Look at crap:

http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...&postcount=119

You need an Intrepid with Ablative and other hull resists to even withstand one fully buffed Tric mine hit! And the first hit knocks you out of the armor anyway, lol. So you die to the next hits anyhow.

Cannon escort fire can be handled with a good shield, EPTS, Tac Team, and/or TSS!


And as for Escorts being OP:

They do a lot of damage. But a good team can heal away most of the spike. And eventually APA and their other Tac buffs are on cooldown. Even good Escorts need Sci to break down defenses. And they have to be kept up by other healers too!

Use OrganizedPvP to make a pugmade. That way you can be sure to get heals! I was just in a pugmade earlier this morning and I never had anything to fear from bugships, etc, because I had teammates that would help me out when I needed it the most! It's a team game above all.


Click here and here if you are interested in learning more about PvP.

Last edited by snoge00f; 12-26-2012 at 01:43 PM.
Ensign
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 8
# 155
12-26-2012, 03:02 PM
The only thing that really scares me about this is the PDS idea... it's like building a portable bug zapper suit because you don't like mosquito bites. Sure, that'll keep you from getting bit, but there are other repercussions that are being ignored. How would it affect your social life? What if it rains? Etc etc etc. Putting a catch-all blanket on difficult NPCs to deal with one specific issue is simply moronic.

Now, I admit that I don't use Tricobs, and that I'm also one of those "carebears" that can't post twice in this subforum without being covered with vitriol spew. That aside, the idea of having all mines, targetable projectiles AND pets being nerfstomped due to the emergence of an ultrabuild that utilizes only ONE weapon type and only ONE delivery method is beyond my comprehension. Borticus's comment that it "may not be a good idea" is one hell of an understatement.

Consider: in war, weapons are developed that give one side a distinct advantage. How does the other side respond? By developing appropriate countermeasures (or being soundly defeated, but that's not the point here). Wouldn't it make sense to address this overpowered weapon issue by providing more effective means to counter said weapon? Borticus suggested one such measure: decreasing the stealth on the mines. It's not an overhaul of anything, but it does aid both NPCs and players with countering the weapon.

Decreasing the overall damage and damage variance, while certainly a knee-jerk reaction, are not terrible ideas; they simply miss the point. Make it a real arms race. Increase the targets on CRF/FAW. Make mines EXTREMELY susceptible to Sci powers. Make carrier pets target mines with very high priority. I'm just throwing ideas out there; granted, they may not be the best ideas (or even good ideas at all), but anything beats a half-assed blanket fix like the asinine PDS idea.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 13,665
# 156
12-26-2012, 03:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by omeganights84 View Post
I'm also one of those "carebears" that can't post twice in this subforum without being covered with vitriol spew.
The only people that get covered with vitriol spew in this subforum are those that come spewing vitriol...

IN GENERAL...

...I've long wondered (in many games, mind you) - what delusions some people operate under in regard to certain aspects of the game. It's like they heard somebody say that the Sun is pea green. They could spend all day out in the sun, for days on end - for weeks on end - for months, for years... seeing the sun each and every day - and they'd think it was pea green.

edit: I added the SandyBrown in general just to make it clear that wasn't directed at omega specifically. I think there might be a little bit of aggro in this thread that's coming across to folks when it's not meant to be there - possibly even a case of aggro here and there being carried over to other posts - general frustration coming across and leading to things possibly being read wrong.


Fleet Admiral Geist, Klingon Science Officer
U.S.S. Arcadia, Benthan Assault Cruiser - U.S.S. Deogen, Phantom Intel Escort
U.S.S. Endless, Hazari Destroyer - U.S.S. Naked Sun, Hirogen Apex Battle Cruiser

Last edited by virusdancer; 12-26-2012 at 05:12 PM.
Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 302
# 157
12-26-2012, 04:15 PM
the pvp community has some helpful people in it BUT the majority are the ones that drove their own fun out the door by their arrogance and rudeness.

your statement of it being a pver pretending to be a pvper that is just a blatant remark of one of the primary offenders to through blame elsewhere.

also as for the person quoting me.
i am aware of exactly why they where not usable with the skills i played in season 2 the golden era for this game.(current pvpers call it a dark age)

a lot more was in balance minus one or two skills.we didn't have all the P2W and escorts where not the be all win all they are now.

in closing yes nerf the damage on the trics do to the skill the scaling damage to help them cover more area but with relatively no benefit to damage.but by NO means implement the PDS.it will hurt the game more then losing a few pvpers.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 13,665
# 158
12-26-2012, 04:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kamipoi View Post
your statement of it being a pver pretending to be a pvper that is just a blatant remark of one of the primary offenders to through blame elsewhere.
No, it's pretty much the most offensive guy out there.

It's the guy that's going use every potential exploit/not working as intended thing in PvE possible to feel good about himself in PvE. He's going to brag about it, minus mentioning any of the nWAI stuff. He's going to put down his fellow PvE folks - he thrives in thinking that the min requirements to accomplish some task on the PvE side are X...when X would be massive overkill even for the hardest content available. They then decide that they should PvP - where they bring that same mentality. They're not actually there to PvP - they completely expect players on the other side to drop like NPCs - and they're going to treat their fellow players in PvP no better than they did in PvE. He'll use every exploit/nWAI available - he makes his sandwiches by putting a piece of bread between two pieces of cheese. Then he brags about his skills.

C'mon, surely you've met that guy... he's the PvE guy pretending to PvP.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kamipoi View Post
but by NO means implement the PDS.it will hurt the game more then losing a few pvpers.
The PDS thing...has nothing to do with PvP.

So obviously they've seen an issue in PvE.

I'm not sure anybody likes the PDS idea... but it's obviously a PvE thing and would have only come about if they've seen something in PvE...

...so it obviously had nothing to do with PvP.

Kind of like most of the fixes... they have nothing to do with PvP.

Do you think TBR would have been fixed for PvP?

No, it got fixed because people were stupid and system spamming the NWS stuff... PvE.
The T4 Omega shield passive? Tada... again PvE.

To be honest, I think the only reason that this got posted in the PvP sections was to make the PvPers think that Cryptic's paying attention to them - but when it ignores everything the PvP folks have talked about and instead mentions the PDS thing... once again, it's obvious that it's only being addressed because it's a PvE problem.


Fleet Admiral Geist, Klingon Science Officer
U.S.S. Arcadia, Benthan Assault Cruiser - U.S.S. Deogen, Phantom Intel Escort
U.S.S. Endless, Hazari Destroyer - U.S.S. Naked Sun, Hirogen Apex Battle Cruiser

Last edited by virusdancer; 12-26-2012 at 04:26 PM.
Ensign
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 8
# 159
12-26-2012, 04:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
The only people that get covered with vitriol spew in this subforum are those that come spewing vitriol...
You may be right, considering the only reasons I can think of for carebears to be in this subforum are to 1) instigate; or 2) weigh in on threads describing changes that would affect all gameplay modes but are inexplicably posted in the PvP subforum. Obviously, I would be in the latter party.

Conversely, I'm not sure where you're going with the sun thing or how it applies to me. What I know about Tricobs is what I gained using them for a short period of time with no specialization whatsoever and what I've read/watched from this thread. I'm not one to take anything anyone says as gospel, but if my knowledge of something is limited then it's only logical to default to information provided by others with more experience.

Regardless of any of that, this thread definitely has me at Red Alert since I was looking at buying that Hyper Plasma Torp... gonna have to put that off for a bit now, since its future will be mighty bleak if that PDS garbage is implemented.
Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 302
# 160
12-26-2012, 04:34 PM
you mean like all the big pvp communities and subnuke doffs premades and others that you yourself are probably guilty of just as well as everyone else.

and also your reading comprehension is terrible that or you are not catching my drift the pvper cummunty is suggesting PDS to give pvers a hard time.it doesn't go through and a few of those less than useful players might rage quite you put the PDS through and you will lose a lot of pvers not just a few.

it will hurt the bottom line of PWE.

i don't pvp much these days not because i won't win but rather i do not wana deal with arrogant people like you.
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