Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 294
# 181
12-28-2012, 12:07 AM
then maybe we can get to a point where we all agree the current trics are not going to work as is but a band aid fix will not work here it must be a well tested and working fix

just droping their damage by 10% wont do anything as has been pointed out
it will have to be A.separated from mine skills B.drop damage of tric mines down but leaving them still hitting harder then quantoms.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 597
# 182
12-28-2012, 04:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kamipoi View Post
then maybe we can get to a point where we all agree the current trics are not going to work as is but a band aid fix will not work here it must be a well tested and working fix

just droping their damage by 10% wont do anything as has been pointed out
it will have to be A.separated from mine skills B.drop damage of tric mines down but leaving them still hitting harder then quantoms.
no you cant take them off of mines skills. its the reason people did not use them in the first place. they need to tone the damage when used with dp. as many others said a huge issue is when 1 tric crits they all crit. just look in logs. fix that and most of the problem is solved.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 777
# 183
12-28-2012, 05:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kamipoi View Post
then maybe we can get to a point where we all agree the current trics are not going to work as is but a band aid fix will not work here it must be a well tested and working fix

just droping their damage by 10% wont do anything as has been pointed out
it will have to be A.separated from mine skills B.drop damage of tric mines down but leaving them still hitting harder then quantoms.
This would make mines even worse then they were before the great mine revamp in season 6. Many of you guys obviously seem to think that going full pew-pew should be the only DPS option in this game and rage hard when another option accurs. I plead for more variety. ATM all projectile weapons (except tricobalts) are inferior to the raw damage of full dual heavy cannons/turrets - builds.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,794
# 184
12-28-2012, 07:19 AM
Just a little word of warning for all those that say fix crit chaining.

Right now the same rules apply to dots... if we unlink the crit chaining. The new thing we will be complaining about will be DOT builds.

Think about it... right now.... how easy is it to stack 5-10 plasma dots on someone? Very right... trust me the math is very very bad if the crit chaining is unlinked.

Yes right now if a string of dots crits all of them do... however if right now you stack 10 dots on someone ... the average player has around a 50-70% chance to Have ONE sting crit... which makes for 10 out of 100 dots = crits.... if we unlink they number of crits will in fact go up with every single crit having its own math calc... I would say dot dmg will go up a good 20-40%.... and for tacs that are now able to hit 20%+ crit chances it should be honestly over the top dmg... out of dots.

Crit linking is fine... IMO... its one weapon roll when you pattern or land a dot... and its a logical operation. If we unlink two things happen.

1) the unexpected masssive buff to Tac Dot boats happen.... and
2) the server is going to melt... honestly in a match where 2 people per side are running plasma boats... throw in some ewp and a few mine layers.... The server is going to have to do 20x the math... To be honest I don't see Cryptics servers handling it very well at al... it is possible Systems tells bort its a no go.

That is why I say just change the DP Tric mine behaviour....
1) make them so they are only one out but give them higher dmg and a 100% proc on the tric rift
2) drop the cool down on tric mines to 20s

This would allow people to lay around the same number of tric mines we have now... with or with out DP... so it would be in fact a buff for most people... However it would mean no more clusters of death... linking would not be an issue as the mines would be spread out.
When the messenger comes to appropriate your profits ... kill the messenger.

Last edited by antoniosalieri; 12-28-2012 at 07:24 AM.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,764
# 185
12-28-2012, 10:08 AM
at least half the fun of my builds is watching someone literally melt in seconds from my EWP3 chain crits lol. thanks to the new tier5 rom active, i can decloak alpha an EWP3 with the tool tip showing just over 2k damage, before crits...
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Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,794
# 186
12-28-2012, 10:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
at least half the fun of my builds is watching someone literally melt in seconds from my EWP3 chain crits lol. thanks to the new tier5 rom active, i can decloak alpha an EWP3 with the tool tip showing just over 2k damage, before crits...
Exactly... right now you have a 20% chance to really really hurt someone... but if the first one doesn't land you get no crits at all.... If they unlink your chance of landing 3-4 crits in a ewp chain of dmg is going to be the norm... so dmg in general will go up... with out perhaps the very painful full sting.

The real issue will be when you throw say an omega torp and perhaps even a rom torp into the mix...

Very quickly you could have 3-5 regular plasma torp burns on someone... +2-3 burns from the hy plasmas... + your EWP... and perhaps even 1-2 stacks from plasma energy weapons (or the console version)...

Right now all those things get ONE roll to crit... and yes if they crit they hurt... but if they unlink they all get independent rolls every single tick. It will make full burn builds a complete nightmare... we will all go back to full borg and run 2 copies of hazards just to resist it.

Not to mention we have no idea how the engine treats crit calculations on skills fired up to 15s before...

Do buffs activated from the originator after the dot lands effect the dot tick ? (meaning I won't hit my alpha... or omegas until I have a good string of burns on a target)

Does defense count against acc and crth / crtd when the dot is first landed or is it going to be real time ? (meaning again holding things like gravity wells / tractor beams Vms and engine disables until again we have a nice stack built up... then disable and boom crit explosion)

The thought of cryptic changing such a fundamental part of the engine scares the heck out of me... cause really I don't see them thinking through all the implications of a change... and we will no doubt be stuck with what ever they do for a long time.
When the messenger comes to appropriate your profits ... kill the messenger.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,764
# 187
12-28-2012, 11:00 AM
I'm only interested in the Crit-Chaining of Tricobalt Mines when used with Dispersal Patterns. The entire Crit system does not need a revamp, just that one small part of it.
Richard Hamilton (1975-2014)
goodbye good friend. We will see you in the DMZ in the sky oneday, save a shot for us.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,794
# 188
12-28-2012, 11:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemepwe View Post
I'm only interested in the Crit-Chaining of Tricobalt Mines when used with Dispersal Patterns. The entire Crit system does not need a revamp, just that one small part of it.
Thats just it... if they make a system change to crit chaining it is going to effect everything...

EWP
Gravity Well
Tykens Rift
Plasma Weapons
Plasma Torps
Tractor beams (no big deal I know)
Tractor Beam Repulsors (I am pretty sure)

That is why i think we should push them to change them in away that doesn't involved the possibility for crit chains to happen.

Drop the cool down on the mines to 20s (10s global), and drop there dmg 10-40% or so... make patterns just boost dmg and enable rifts... and imo I think they are fixed... they are still the massive hit weapons... but we no longer have the first one killing your shield and the second your hull... and crit chains are no longer an issue as they are always one out... and almost never going to be grouped in clusters.
When the messenger comes to appropriate your profits ... kill the messenger.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 61
# 189
12-28-2012, 12:39 PM
I have a simple solution to this problem, no mine dispersal under red alert period for any kind of mine. In real life, mines are placed strategically before battle as a trap or as a defensive measure to protect an asset, not during battle. If you want to use mines in PVP, litter your spawn with them. It will keep people from spawn camping you. If you want to use them in PVE, set a defensive radius around the Kang or Gateway ~11 km out. It's fun in PvE, but escorts flying at 70+ Km/s using DPB3 is silly. As it stands now, the current mine usage is a very skilless attack with a low (or no) opportunity cost. There is no arc to maintain and no expiration period on the mines. Replacing 1 turret at ~136 DPS with a mine that can chew through a hull at full shields (transphasic) or one that can chain crit around 900k - 1 mil for a DPB3 (tricobalt) is not very balanced and again, skilless.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,764
# 190
12-28-2012, 01:03 PM
[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by antoniosalieri View Post
Thats just it... if they make a system change to crit chaining it is going to effect everything...
Why should it? If all they do is remove the crit-chain on Tricobalt mines so they roll each time to see if they crit on impact instead of domino-ing down the line of if one crits then all crit.

Frankly we need a Dev to say wether the changes desired for Trics and DP will effect all crit-chaining ingame.
Richard Hamilton (1975-2014)
goodbye good friend. We will see you in the DMZ in the sky oneday, save a shot for us.
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