Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,465
# 301
01-08-2013, 06:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by maicake716 View Post
a single shot every once in a while will in no way end all mines. all mines but trics naturally deploy more then one.

dispersal patterns make even more.

using tactics you could disperse some mines to "absorb" the auto defense fire and then launch a heavy torp.

but god forbid you might actually have to use powers and weapons in combos.
Cryptic would disagree

Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
- Granting a Point Defense system to Battleship and Dreadnought NPCs that would deal a tiny amount of damage per pulse (<50 dmg, does not ignore shields, no procs), but pulses very frequently and favors the nearest target.
*** This would be a soft-counter to Mine Spam One-Shots, but would have the side effect of making them nearly immune to High Yield torpedoes. (We also have the option of forcing it to target -only- mines, if necessary.)
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,409
# 302
01-08-2013, 07:04 AM
then ask them to have it pulse only once every few seconds to 10seconds or so.


its easier to change their mind about a time then about the ability all together.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mancom View Post
Frankly, I think the only sound advice that one can give new players at this time is to stay away from PVP in STO.
Science pvp at its best-http://www.youtube.com/user/matteo716
Do you even Science Bro?
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,753
# 303
01-08-2013, 07:11 AM
Out of curiuosity, what is the HP of the average Mine?

Would 50 points damage even make a dent in one and cook it off?
Roy Hatch (stryker) soldier, friend, and good man.
1945-2014
RIP
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 585
# 304
01-08-2013, 07:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemepwe View Post
Out of curiuosity, what is the HP of the average Mine?

Would 50 points damage even make a dent in one and cook it off?
Maybe 1 or 2 HP. Even with my sci ship's weapons bottomed out at 5 power w/ FAW up I've never had any trouble killing a mine the moment I hit it.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,753
# 305
01-08-2013, 07:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thegrimcorsair View Post
Maybe 1 or 2 HP. Even with my sci ship's weapons bottomed out at 5 power w/ FAW up I've never had any trouble killing a mine the moment I hit it.
Then I would have to agree with the others.. A automated PDS system would render mines useless if they are so squishy.

If a PDS is implemented then mines may need thier HP raised so they can't be so easily one-shot. Two shot would work for me.
Roy Hatch (stryker) soldier, friend, and good man.
1945-2014
RIP
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 421
# 306
01-08-2013, 07:28 AM
I really really don't like the automated defense option. That would be great at respawn points but NPCs as spam control seems like it goes too far. Trics need a bit of work but in my opinion, any solution that takes control out of the players hands and gives it to the AI is a mistake.
__________________________________________
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 185
# 307
01-08-2013, 07:38 AM
This game is always going to have problems like this as long as the PvE and PvP rules are kept the same. PvE players will never get really good gear as long as that gear has to not upset the game balance of the PvP environment.

The real solution is to have different rule sets for PvE and PvP. I have an idear for a new Hardcore PvP mode which could help this problem by restricting what new equipment and skills are useable in PvP.

See PvP Hardcore Mode - An Idea.

Everyone may hate it, but it would solve a lot of problems and stop the developers having to nerf every good new toy.
"He tasks me. He tasks me, and I shall have him. For every doff box bought, I'll chase him round the Moons of Nibia and round the Antares Maelstrom and round Perdition's flames. For every single doff box opened, I stab at thee from hell's heart. For every single doff contributed, I spit my last breath at thee..." Khan Playing STO
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,668
# 308
01-08-2013, 07:41 AM
At what point do you reach the limit of what you need in PvE, though?

It's already easy to complete PvE content without any of the new toys.


Click here and here if you are interested in learning more about PvP.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 185
# 309
01-08-2013, 07:45 AM
New season, new toys, new content, new bases/embassies, new everything, is not that what its all about? Keeping people interested.

Oh and not forgetting, new nerfs!
"He tasks me. He tasks me, and I shall have him. For every doff box bought, I'll chase him round the Moons of Nibia and round the Antares Maelstrom and round Perdition's flames. For every single doff box opened, I stab at thee from hell's heart. For every single doff contributed, I spit my last breath at thee..." Khan Playing STO
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 585
# 310
01-08-2013, 07:45 AM
After mulling it over for a few weeks, I think having the mine pattern provide individual mines at reduced damage per mine is going to work out the best. Something along these lines, but don't take them anything like hard numbers. This also presupposes that the 'one crits the whole net crits" bug is hammered out.

Quote:
Dispersal Pattern: Alpha/Beta 3: 4 Mines, group total 2.5 times the damage of a single base mine. 25% of normal stun duration per mine.
Probably something along those lines to account for them requiring higher-level BOff slots to make use of patterns, while keeping them from being guaranteed ship-gibbers. The PDS system is not a good choice for AI battleships as it would likely render all mine fields, even the useful but not particularly damaging chroniton mines, worthless in the vicinity of battleships.

[Edit]

Got ninja'd by a sidetrack of conversation. Splitting PvE and PvP development would be an extremely costly and labor intensive undertaking, one unlikely to ever occur for a myriad of reasons, not the least of which is that it further polarizes the the player base between content and requires two completely different skill sets and knowledge bases on the part of the game's players.

[long winded rambling JM2c]

Much of the problems in the game stemming from "don't nerf it just because it broke PvP" and "those dirty PvE'ers don't understand how the real game works" comes from an underlying fault in the game's encounter design to utilize the mechanics that are present in the game to its fullest extent, both at the "mob" level and the "mission structure" level. This is most evident in the fact that player ships and mob ships, while having some overlap in skill and role, operate in vastly different paradigms. Mob ships, particularly in STF's but also in other group content, revolve around doling out large hits of damage, weight of numbers, and grossly disproportional (though finite) hit points to maintain a sense of threat and durability. Player ships, by comparison, rely on carefully applied heals and damage resistance to keep damage at sustainable levels, essentially maintaining themselves, while searching out or making an opportunity to deliver a swift and decisive blow for a kill. Many of those abilities, however, end up wasted on mobs that are swinging between instantly killing you regardless of your defenses or not doing enough damage to threaten you in the first place. Of course, having the mobs work like players play would have its own problems as well, especially in pickup games where you can't rely on there being a class/player that can create an opening to quickly kill the mob, and exacerbated by being under a time limit and facing enemies with weight of numbers.

Short form? The game's encounter design should have been built around, and driven by, its mechanics as they are used in all parts of the game to eliminate, or at least greatly diminish, the divergent development of what are, essentially, two different "languages' within the player base. To make such a correction at this time would be a massive, and likely extremely expensive, endeavor, one very unlikely to occur. So, we end up with gear and abilities which has to be designed to plug in and make sense and be appealing to two different player groups, usually, and the detriment of one or the other... at least for awhile.

[/long winded rambling JM2c]

Last edited by thegrimcorsair; 01-08-2013 at 08:14 AM.
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