Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 290
# 91
12-28-2012, 12:28 AM
tier 6 ka'vort class maybe deployed as a periment three wing unit with u as the prime ka'vort with 2 ka'vorts as you wing ka'vorts
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 258
# 92
12-29-2012, 03:14 AM
All this talk about sci ship. Never been one. An engine, two guns and one torp launcher flying in loose formation. That is a K'Vort.
In the shows it has always been described as cruiser. So yes, it should be a battlecruiser.
Imho, it should be a cruiser along the lines of the breen ship, just with eng LtCmdr instead of sci one.
Fleet version with 5 tac consoles pls, thank you. Oh, and the model should be based on the Hegh'ta, with a modified B'rel skin. Pivot point and all that. Turnrate of 15 degrees base.

In the end I don't care how it is classified. One can call it a cruiser, if inertia and turnrate are ok.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,066
# 93
12-29-2012, 10:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by aurigas7 View Post
All this talk about sci ship. Never been one. An engine, two guns and one torp launcher flying in loose formation. That is a K'Vort.
In the shows it has always been described as cruiser. So yes, it should be a battlecruiser.
Imho, it should be a cruiser along the lines of the breen ship, just with eng LtCmdr instead of sci one.
Fleet version with 5 tac consoles pls, thank you. Oh, and the model should be based on the Hegh'ta, with a modified B'rel skin. Pivot point and all that. Turnrate of 15 degrees base.

In the end I don't care how it is classified. One can call it a cruiser, if inertia and turnrate are ok.
"If". The Breen ship basically copies what KDF BC's have been doing for years, but for the Feds...and why? because we already HAVE the best cruisers in the game. Adding another one is, well...redundant. the last try was the craptastic Bortasque', a combination of features that don't work together in the same package, based on a Fed whaleboat.

I do not have much hope that yet-another-cruiser isn't going to be a collection of failed ideas chained together and flying in loose formation.

Second thing is, you've looked at the K'Tinga's stats, right?

Notice something?

2 weapons aft, 4 front, 200 man crew. At tier 5 (in the game), that's not cruiser territory, that's BoP territory-but per the era, (mid-late 2300's) it was a cruiser-in fact, THE standard cruiser until the unveiling of the Vor'cha. Further on, the entirety of the Raptor classification is an "Escortized" version of the standard KDF cruisers of Archer's era. (2100's)
which should lay a hint down for you-the game stat classifications are "modern"as of 2409 (except the K'tinga, but that's likely due to that other factor in large organizations-bureaucratic inertia), a Hegh'ta in THAT time period (aka early 2300's) would've ALSO been classed on Fed warbooks as a Cruiser-crew of 150, 6 weapons in the same layout as a K'tinga, with some additional capabilities. (really a very "Jackie Fisher" type of cruiser-sacrificing protection for firepower and speed.)

Buit that doesn't mean it was EVER intended to be a gimped Vor'cha.

OTGH (on the gripping hand, in case you're unfamiliar) I'd wager given equal access to 'stuff' and the same level of Rep powers, that a Vor'cha can match-and-beat a Chel Ghett in a straight fight. There isn't a Fed cruiser that can do that-we have the best Cruisers, we don't have a need for more, and at this level of cruiser development, it's either copy an existing design with one minor difference, or start up the OP ladder-there's no real room for development of KDF cruisers left-we already HAVE the apex, the only way now is down toward sucksville.

For it to be a successful design offering, it's GOT to be in a field that has room for growth/improvement-that's not cruisers, it may be in Raptors (to a point) or pure BoPs (to a point), but there is one area that's pretty much an open field-and it's not the cruiser range.

and THAT is why the subject of Sci ships came up-there's room to be distinctive and creative without rewriting the entire game.
"when you're out of Birds of Prey, you're out of ships."

A Festival of Blood and Fire!

Blaming PvP for nerfs is like blaming Eudromaeosauria for today's urban crime rates.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 258
# 94
12-29-2012, 12:19 PM
You may call it whatever you want. In the end I want an escort in everything but name. Raptors are cruisers with an escort boff layout. If you like to call it a raptor because of this, fine.

While there is a lack in science vessels on red side, the K'Vort is not the answer. And no, we don't have a "cruiser" that has a Cmdr tac slot. Only "cruiser" so far to offer this is the Chel Grett.

In short the boff layout of the Armitage combined with the Qin's consoles and 5th tac console on fleet version. Everything wrapped up in a hull without pivot point issues.

Last edited by aurigas7; 12-29-2012 at 12:33 PM.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 245
# 95
12-29-2012, 04:03 PM
Quote:
The Breen ship basically copies what KDF BC's have been doing for years, but for the Feds
There's nothing "cruiser" about the Breen ship.

*It has no Cmdr engineering station. All cruisers do, including Klingon Battlecruisers.

*It only has 3 engineering consoles. All tier 5 cruisers have at least 4, including Klingon Battlecruisers.

*It has a turn rate of 13. Higher than any cruiser. Including Klingon Battlecruisers.

The Breen ship is an escort with an extra rear weapons slot.

The D'Kora is the Feddie answer to Klingon Battlecruisers--they had to get it some time, right?. The Chel Grett is not a cruiser in any way, shape or form.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,066
# 96
12-29-2012, 08:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wunjee View Post
There's nothing "cruiser" about the Breen ship.

*It has no Cmdr engineering station. All cruisers do, including Klingon Battlecruisers.

*It only has 3 engineering consoles. All tier 5 cruisers have at least 4, including Klingon Battlecruisers.

*It has a turn rate of 13. Higher than any cruiser. Including Klingon Battlecruisers.

The Breen ship is an escort with an extra rear weapons slot.

The D'Kora is the Feddie answer to Klingon Battlecruisers--they had to get it some time, right?. The Chel Grett is not a cruiser in any way, shape or form.
You know what else it has in common with the D'Kora?

yup-it's going to be a lockbox ship when the event's over.

They're going to sell it.
"when you're out of Birds of Prey, you're out of ships."

A Festival of Blood and Fire!

Blaming PvP for nerfs is like blaming Eudromaeosauria for today's urban crime rates.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 245
# 97
12-29-2012, 09:02 PM
Well that's pretty much a given, seeing as how they've never given a free ship that they didn't turn around and sell to those who missed/were too lazy to participate in the event.
Ensign
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 18
# 98
01-02-2013, 12:21 PM
I can't see the KDF getting an original boff set up so I was thinking...

What if the K'Vort was the KDF equivalent of the Steamrunner, with less hull and shield but with a battle cloak and better turn rate.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 245
# 99
01-03-2013, 12:23 AM
Steamrunner's a $25.00 ship.

Giving a ship with Steamrunner's capability + battlecloak away to everyone who so much as lifts a finger to get it, for free, would be incredibly stupid.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,066
# 100
01-03-2013, 12:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wunjee View Post
Steamrunner's a $25.00 ship.

Giving a ship with Steamrunner's capability + battlecloak away to everyone who so much as lifts a finger to get it, for free, would be incredibly stupid.
insomuch as it pains me to do so, I have to agree here-people paid good money for the Steamrunner, (not lobi, nor Zen, nor dilithium,nor grinding for months, good money.)

the point of balance would be a ship somewhere in the power tree between the Chel'grett (or however it's spelled-the Breen ship) and the Odyssey (which was, at one point, also "Free" after playing specific limited time content in a specific way).

why "Power tree"? because it doesn't have to be a linear progression-ie. it can be different/equivalent, different, as in having different strengths and weaknesses, equivalent in that it's not unreasonable to put it in the field (assuming equal skill players at equal or equivalent level with decent teammates driving standard, non-lockbox/zen store/etc ships) against either the breen ship, or an Odyssey/Defiant R/Excelsior R/Galaxy X.

We all have different views on what "Equivalent" should be-the long debate between myself and Wunjee being a prime example of sincere disagreement (I hope, I'm not putting words in your mouth, am I?), each of us has their own logic on hte subject-I focus on gaps in the KDF roster and the rarity of new ships to fill those gaps, he's focused on getting another Cruiser added based on lines from the television show, and (I think) a love of cruisers over all (I could be wrong here.)

BUT... pushing too far is pushing too far. the power level of this hypothetical K'Vort can't exceed (or even meet) that of a ship people paid good money through an exclusive vendor to get for a limited time.

That would be like giving us a "Bugship killer" escort that meets or exceeds the performance spec of the Jem'hadar Attack Ship.

It not only isn't likely to happen, it shouldn't be likely to happen.

Whatever else, the K'Vort should be a GOOD ship, but not necessarily a GREAT ship-it should have an attraction OTHER than pure statistics, but the stats shouldn't be either redundant, or doofily OP.
"when you're out of Birds of Prey, you're out of ships."

A Festival of Blood and Fire!

Blaming PvP for nerfs is like blaming Eudromaeosauria for today's urban crime rates.
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