Career Officer
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 294
# 51
12-24-2012, 06:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by markhawkman View Post
"And get your butt handed to you by races the Federation has never heard of before."

:p
no no no, you got it wrong. If you really wanna know what the story of STO is, here it is...

Space, the final frontier. These are the attempts to empty your wallet. To seek out more profits for intangible items. To run up your debt, to milk this game for all its worth. dun, da da dun, da da dun, do da da da doo dooo dooo da da doooo.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 9,479
# 52
12-24-2012, 06:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by darimund View Post
no no no, you got it wrong. If you really wanna know what the story of STO is, here it is...

Space, the final frontier. These are the attempts to empty your wallet. To seek out more profits for intangible items. To run up your debt, to milk this game for all its worth. dun, da da dun, da da dun, do da da da doo dooo dooo da da doooo.
Oh you cynical sod you.
HI HO, HI HO. OFF DUTY SLOT NEEDS TO GO!
"It's better to ask a dumb question, than to remain an idiot forever."
RIP Sensor Analysis
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,034
# 53
12-24-2012, 08:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by elandarksky View Post
Well that's news to me >.>

In fairness it WAS a long time since i played and payed attention to the story ^^'
It wasn't explicitly stated, but if you look closely he has some Borg implants on the side of his face.
Say NO to mandatory Arc!
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 10,563
# 54
12-24-2012, 09:07 PM
Yeah, only his face isn't covered by his clothes and armor. And his face has Borg cybernetics stuck to it.....
HAIL HYDRA!
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
I can haz joystick!
MMOs aren't charities. Corporations are supposed to make a profit. It's what they do.
Show Archon and Borticus how much you would like to see new Doff races!
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 824
# 55
12-25-2012, 03:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thratch1 View Post

Let's be honest here -- all of the frontline content for STO these days is usually a new environment to run around in, and new ships on the C-Store. They try for story, but they really need to refine how they approach the story's presentation, and scrutinize their writing a bit more before pushing it out there.
Thank you for pointing that out.

STO weakest point are the storylines, which most of the time makes no sense or go unfinished in that it just stops without giving us explanations.

I know they have a writer, she writes many of the storylines - what I do not know is if she is the only one at the studio that does the writing. They seriously need a serious storyboard review team that are well knowledgible in the lore of Star trek.

Granted some stories are good, not great, but good, but the majority are seriously lacking.

Let me break it down for you folks:

STO Greatest Weakness - Story, Ground Combat, & PVP (What PvP?)

STO Greatest Strength - This can be dabated - but I feel that the space portion of the game is its greatest strength.

STO Greatest Strength - Graphics - The game is nice looking, that I admit.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 31
# 56
12-25-2012, 04:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stark2k View Post
STO weakest point are the storylines, which most of the time makes no sense or go unfinished in that it just stops without giving us explanations.

STO Greatest Weakness - Story, Ground Combat, & PVP (What PvP?)

STO Greatest Strength - This can be dabated - but I feel that the space portion of the game is its greatest strength.

STO Greatest Strength - Graphics - The game is nice looking, that I admit.
I disagree that Story should be the game's greatest weakness. Look.. when it comes down to it.. especially in regards to Trekkies.. Cryptic can come up and execute the best story ever and people would still complain about it. It's the nature of Trekkies. We are NEVER happy with what we have. I am going to go out on a limb because I like ALL of Trek and say that Trekkies are one of the primary reasons why Voyager / Nemesis / Enterprise are badly received in general. Trekkies are the reasons why we'll never see anything else from the Prime Universe again. Nemesis was not a bad movie. Yes, it could have been better.. but it wasn't as bad as people made it out to believe.. same with Enterprise.. same with Voyager. Trekkies need to learn to like things for what they are.. and stop nitpicking on every little detail. I'm not saying NOT to criticize.. but there comes a point where criticizing does nobody any good anymore and it just makes the fandom seem petty.

Like Trek for what it is.

Anyhow, back on track. There's no question that STO's greatest weakness right now is PVP and Exploration.

I also have to disagree that the graphics are its greatest strength. There are TONS of games that look alot better than STO. Have you ever seen the game at the lower graphic settings? It looks unplayable like that. The graphics aren't bad... but they could have been alot better. The ships are probably the best thing graphics-wise that Cryptic can boast about. New Romulus is a step forward on the environment bits. Now if only we could have more planets to go down to.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 208
# 57
12-25-2012, 04:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by coldicephoenix View Post
Even Blizzard the current MMO-King relies on short stories, comics and novels for story progression.
I have found that you can get most of the story just from playing WoW. The game doesn't force the story on you, you have to piece it together little by little from what npc's tell you. I think it's a really nice way to to tell a story in a big world where your character is just an adventurer of (relatively) little importance. However, WoW (as anything Blizzard, especially Metzen writes) seems to get most of its story inspiration from saturday morning cartoons, superhero comics and shounen manga/anime, so everything is horibbly predictable and clicheed.

STO's story is terrible in its own way. In an apparent effort to mix things up, Cryptic has made made every major race come to the Alpha quadrant to wage war with one another. From that point we go back to saturday morning cartoons for inpiration. The way the story is presented doesn't help matters, either. I cringe every time I'm forced to watch one of those cinematic cutscenes.

Last edited by evendzhar; 12-25-2012 at 05:00 AM.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 37
# 58
12-25-2012, 05:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by broadnax View Post
The game you describe is one I would never subscribe to or spend money on. I want to feel like my characters are part of the story; I want to feel immersed in the game world. I have FPS games for when the shooter mood hits me. That's not what I play an MMO for.
You are as much part of a story in a good quality sandbox with only loose objectives and procedurally generated content. I would dare say you are more part of the story than in a heavily scripted game.

In a heavily scripted game stuff does happen because of authorial fiat and nothing else. When your captain does save the day it was not because of your actions but because of the script. When your captain does fail it was not because of your lack of skill but because the script did demand so. What input did you have in the story? What part did you play in the plot? Your input has no value. It is not your character's story at all. You do nothing but to watch the story play before your eyes and imagine it was actually your character's accomplishment.

Compare this to, to use an example I do know about, an MMO with heavy faction and guild based gameplay like territorial control that does actually matter and does make a difference. That enemy wizard you did finish off with an awesome critical hit while protecting city X or fortress Y from an enemy faction or guild? That did influence the world. A world that could have been different. And that did influence the outcome of the battle. A battle your faction could have lost. The way you did build your character, the way you did plan his or her development, the skill you did pick to use and the equipment he or she had at the time did write a few paragraphs in the story of that world. It was not scripted. It could have been different. Your skill and your choices did make it this way.

Is that not to be truly part of a story and part of a world?

There is a reason why most of the really interesting anecdotes in gaming do come from roguelikes, from Dwarf Fortress, from PvP heavy games, or from random ocurrences in an otherwise scripted game.

Last edited by foschiadanzante; 12-25-2012 at 06:00 AM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 497
# 59
12-25-2012, 06:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by foschiadanzante View Post
You are as much part of a story in a good quality sandbox with only loose objectives and procedurally generated content. I would dare say you are more part of the story than in a heavily scripted game.

In a heavily scripted game stuff does happen because of authorial fiat and nothing else. When your captain does save the day it was not because of your actions but because of the script. When your captain does fail it was not because of your lack of skill but because the script did demand so. What input did you have in the story? What part did you play in the plot? Your input has no value. It is not your character's story at all. You do nothing but to watch the story play before your eyes and imagine it was actually your character's accomplishment.

Compare this to an MMO with heavy faction and guild based gameplay like territorial control that does actually matter and does make a difference. That enemy wizard you did finish off with an awesome critical hit while protecting city X or fortress Y from an enemy faction or guild? That did influence the world. A world that could have been different. And that did influence the outcome of the battle. A battle your faction could have lost. The way you did build your character, the way you did plan his or her development, the skill you did pick to use and the equipment he or she had at the time did write a few paragraphs in the story of that world. It was not scripted. It could have been different. Your skill and your choices did make it this way.

Is that not to be truly part of a story and part of a world?

There is a reason why most of the really interesting anecdotes in gaming do come from roguelikes, from Dwarf Fortress, from PvP heavy games, or from random ocurrences in an otherwise scripted game.
Wow... well put
I'll sell you some weapons from New Romulus. Never fired, only dropped once.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,019
# 60
12-25-2012, 06:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by foschiadanzante View Post
You are as much part of a story in a good quality sandbox with only loose objectives and procedurally generated content. I would dare say you are more part of the story than in a heavily scripted game.

In a heavily scripted game stuff does happen because of authorial fiat and nothing else. When your captain does save the day it was not because of your actions but because of the script. When your captain does fail it was not because of your lack of skill but because the script did demand so. What input did you have in the story? What part did you play in the plot? Your input has no value. It is not your character's story at all. You do nothing but to watch the story play before your eyes and imagine it was actually your character's accomplishment.

Compare this to, to use an example I do know about, an MMO with heavy faction and guild based gameplay like territorial control that does actually matter and does make a difference. That enemy wizard you did finish off with an awesome critical hit while protecting city X or fortress Y from an enemy faction or guild? That did influence the world. A world that could have been different. And that did influence the outcome of the battle. A battle your faction could have lost. The way you did build your character, the way you did plan his or her development, the skill you did pick to use and the equipment he or she had at the time did write a few paragraphs in the story of that world. It was not scripted. It could have been different. Your skill and your choices did make it this way.

Is that not to be truly part of a story and part of a world?

There is a reason why most of the really interesting anecdotes in gaming do come from roguelikes, from Dwarf Fortress, from PvP heavy games, or from random ocurrences in an otherwise scripted game.
Authorial fiat does allow for more epic stories with a controlled moral or message though as well as stories that build empathy for NPCs. You can't tell controlled moral fables or human "slice of life" stories about NPCs in a pure sandbox. That's the tradeoff.

Well, you can have epics in a sandbox but they're emergent epics. You can't really have an epic lesson about tolerance, a morality tale, or social fable.

I think both types are needed, sandbox and authorially controlled.

And there are options in authorially controlled narratives with a planned ending which include both alternate outcomes and deciding which role you play in the story.

For example: a Prime Directive violation story. Either you uphold the PD and face an NPC Captain who violates it or you violate it yourself (perhaps alongside the NPC) and face the fallout. That's resource intensive because it's designing two missions effectively with one outcome.

Overall, if I had the game to magically redesign and an unlimited budget, I'd look at it like this:

Main character progression in the open world? Sandbox. Probably adventure zones for all of the major planets and systems but more sandbox-y. Same basic missions/setup for everyone but some faction and profession specific mechanics that make the play feel different. Stuff like: Vulcan has a drought! Help fix it or exploit it by shooting things and gathering supplies!

Touchstone missions which are tightly authorially controlled for the fate of the factions and major NPCs. Some choice but you choose your role in the touchstone mission. So instead of FEs, you'd have or two mega-missions where you can go in, replay, and experience it from multiple perspectives. Same final outcome and same basic messages but your role in the story is your choice. Probably 2-3 or these per front.

And then Exploration missions would be almost totally by authorial fiat, morality tales with one or two key choices, basically. Welcome to a planet where the green people and the purple people don't get along and where the princess must be persuaded that racial harmony is worth fighting for.

It probably seems counter-intuitive at first for the open world to be sandbox-y and exploration to be scripted and it's the reverse of what they did. But it has to do with the type of story you need to tell in each (Captain's progression and the Galaxy's progression versus morality tale/fable on a one off world) and also the tech requirements of each (open world needs more distinct original assets and new tech and attention from the full team whereas exploration really just needs writers using repurposed assets, kindof official, quality guaranteed Foundry missions).

I think we may be moving there. Spotlights are nice. But I'd like to see, in essence, paid Foundry authors with editorial oversight acting as an official publishing operation, telling morality tales that focus on the small, human stories and moral yarns that procedural and sandbox-y content can't do well. And then the big team releases being more sandbox-y but also more vetted for story logic and quality NPC dialogue.
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:02 AM.