Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 127
# 21
12-25-2012, 11:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by travelingmaster View Post
Umm, private queues. That's why they exist. Just disable the ability to make a private queue public, thereby circumventing any measures to disable premade teaming.
Yes... since premades (if you can call the joke grade that most pvpers in sto are, real premades) were sooo willing to step up to the plate when the various Big Boy Guilds, started asking for private challenges in the single largest pvp channel in sto.

Also? Really? You people are still whining about premades? All of the Real Talent in terms of dedicated premades with the exception of like one guild have left STO. Suck it up, and beat the scrubs.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,766
# 22
12-26-2012, 09:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by maicake716 View Post
but thats one of the major issues with "premades" in this game.

a lot of the time its just a random group of people from the same fleet.

no team set up or anything. just skilled players.

yet they get called a premade because theyre all from the same fleet?

-_-
Perhaps we need to call them PuGmades?

Still the issue is the same.
5 players, even if a PuG team from same fleet, can excel at PvP due to thier experience and skill at PvP.
I see it all the time in Ker'rat when the KDF team up to kill feds.
Experince is still the best advantage in any PvP setting and I do not see how the game can be "balanced" to compensate for it, or why it should be.

PvP is by its nature dangerous and when PuGing that danger can be higher than if running on a Premade or even a PuGmade team.

Redesigning or adding a STO game aspect that attempts to give the solo player an even ground in PvP by absolving Premades will not work and frankly, imo, PvP should be a game that has safety in numbers over "Kirking" or "Changing alone".

Add more Open PvP zones I say.
Richard Hamilton (1975-2014)
goodbye good friend. We will see you in the DMZ in the sky oneday, save a shot for us.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,207
# 23
12-26-2012, 02:48 PM
I suggested a singles / non-teamed queue several years ago. Of course, it was adamantly rejected by the bulk of the PVP community. Now, public PVP queues are all but dead.

If the current situation is fine by those reading this, then let's keep this trend going! All we have to do is nothing at all
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,735
# 24
12-26-2012, 02:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mavhax View Post
Yes... since premades (if you can call the joke grade that most pvpers in sto are, real premades) were sooo willing to step up to the plate when the various Big Boy Guilds, started asking for private challenges in the single largest pvp channel in sto.

Also? Really? You people are still whining about premades? All of the Real Talent in terms of dedicated premades with the exception of like one guild have left STO. Suck it up, and beat the scrubs.
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Career Officer
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 759
# 25
12-26-2012, 03:24 PM
People who claim that premades are the problem always fail to explain why C&H isn't immensely popular. There basically are no C&H premade groups. So if premades really were the main problem, then we should see empty arena queues and permanently filled C&H queues - but we don't.
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Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,207
# 26
12-26-2012, 03:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mancom View Post
People who claim that premades are the problem always fail to explain why C&H isn't immensely popular. There basically are no C&H premade groups. So if premades really were the main problem, then we should see empty arena queues and permanently filled C&H queues - but we don't.
Oh the contrary, premades were quite prolific in C&H back when I did play. They were pretty content with racking up their kill counts until the other side left. However, they made no efforts to actually capture anything. They were happy with padding their damage + healing numbers.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 865
# 27
12-26-2012, 03:41 PM
This argument always cracks me up.

POV 1, The PUG - Premades ruin the game. I have the best build, gear and ship, but get roflstomped when I go up against premades. This isn't fun.

POV 2, The Premade - This is a team-oriented game, why aren't there more teams available to play against? PUGstomping is not much fun, but what choice is there when I want to play with my friends and nobody is accepting a premade challenge?

It seems to me the problem could be very easily solved for both groups of players. JOIN A TEAM. It's an MMO, it was designed for team play. That is the entire premise of the genre. If you aren't willing to do this, then you have no right to complain that you are not getting the maximum fulfillment available from STO PvP.

Solo players should expect to be at a disadvantage, it is a foregone conclusion. You shouldn't have any expectations of anything else, because it is not a single-player game.

I used to PUG, it didn't last long. I made friends, formed teams, got better at teamwork and started winning. That's how it's supposed to work. It's very simple, yet flies over the heads of so many.
Quote:
ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ RIYOTT ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ: Have you wondered that maybe all the things they've added to the gaem lately is to literally make PvP unbearable? Because everything they've added has no use in PvE at all; we know the big boss hates 14 yo min maxers
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,207
# 28
12-26-2012, 04:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by brandonfl View Post
This argument always cracks me up.

POV 1, The PUG - Premades ruin the game. I have the best build, gear and ship, but get roflstomped when I go up against premades. This isn't fun.

POV 2, The Premade - This is a team-oriented game, why aren't there more teams available to play against? PUGstomping is not much fun, but what choice is there when I want to play with my friends and nobody is accepting a premade challenge?

It seems to me the problem could be very easily solved for both groups of players. JOIN A TEAM. It's an MMO, it was designed for team play. That is the entire premise of the genre. If you aren't willing to do this, then you have no right to complain that you are not getting the maximum fulfillment available from STO PvP.

Solo players should expect to be at a disadvantage, it is a foregone conclusion. You shouldn't have any expectations of anything else, because it is not a single-player game.

I used to PUG, it didn't last long. I made friends, formed teams, got better at teamwork and started winning. That's how it's supposed to work. It's very simple, yet flies over the heads of so many.
That is the primary point of contention and the main reason why STO Public PVP is nearly dead.

There are at least two primary STO PVP player camps:

1) Team PVP'ers
2) Individual PVP'ers who don't want to join a team

Regardless of which camp you're in, if Cryptic only caters to one side, the other will eventually move away from STO PVP since this game is not fulfilling their needs. You cannot expect either camp to change sides just to conform to your preferred style.

STO is robust enough to support both play styles and queue types, but since Cryptic has chosen to support team-only PVP, the public PVP queues now sit silently rotting away. There is no steady infusion of new PVP'ers because there is no transition queue to let new STO players taste PVP from a spur-of-the-moment perspective. It's all about who you group with before entering a fight.

Almost 2 years ago, I predicted that STO public PVP will die a slow, painful death if Cryptic doesn't change its team-only focus. Fast forward to the present, and that's exactly what is happening now.

If we want to kill STO public PVP, then all we have to do is keep things as-is. Natural selection will take care of the rest.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,793
# 29
12-26-2012, 07:14 PM
Yeah, and on that note our pugmade just beat the snot out of a mix pug-premade.

They had every p2w in the game and we still won.

No wonder those guys aren't any good, they never learned proper teamwork. They had damage, healers, and sci and they still lost. lulz.


So uhm ... if you need a team, just ask in OPvP. Ever since I started playing with pugmades the game has gotten so much more fun for me. I can actually expect to get heals now.


Click here and here if you are interested in learning more about PvP.

Last edited by snoge00f; 12-26-2012 at 07:16 PM.
Ensign
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 12
# 30
12-26-2012, 07:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mancom View Post
People who claim that premades are the problem always fail to explain why C&H isn't immensely popular. There basically are no C&H premade groups. So if premades really were the main problem, then we should see empty arena queues and permanently filled C&H queues - but we don't.
Cap and Hold is really, really poorly designed. It can last anywhere from 10 minutes to an hour or two, depending on how many players actually know or are willing to pursue the victory condition. There was basically a 50% chance I'd have to beg my teammates to get out of the stupid cloud whenever I used to queue for them.

It's not a very good example to prove anything, despite being one of two space game types.
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