Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 865
# 31
12-27-2012, 08:47 PM
Assumptions, assumptions, assumptions.

Try reading our posts.

We all agree on 1 thing. That is that PvP needs attention. What we disagree with is the idea that segregating teams from solo players is the solution.

New game modes, map types and territory control would all be wonderful things... those things are not on the horizon, unfortunately.

Under the current system, and with the low PvP population, segregating the queues would not solve any problems, only create new ones for the people who enjoy playing in groups. Get it? It's not about maintaining the status quo. It's about preserving what little fun grouped players can still have. Since it is a team-oriented game, that fact must enter into the equation.

This isn't about preserving premades rights to stomp on PUGs. It's about preserving the ability to enjoy the game with friends. The solution presented in the OP only allows 2 types of queuing: full 5-man teams and solo. What happens to the 2 or 3 guys who want to queue together? They don't have the option under the proposed queue types. That isn't right.
Quote:
ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ RIYOTT ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ: Have you wondered that maybe all the things they've added to the gaem lately is to literally make PvP unbearable? Because everything they've added has no use in PvE at all; we know the big boss hates 14 yo min maxers

Last edited by brandonfl; 12-27-2012 at 08:49 PM.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,207
# 32
12-27-2012, 10:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by brandonfl View Post
Assumptions, assumptions, assumptions.

Try reading our posts.

We all agree on 1 thing. That is that PvP needs attention. What we disagree with is the idea that segregating teams from solo players is the solution.

New game modes, map types and territory control would all be wonderful things... those things are not on the horizon, unfortunately.

Under the current system, and with the low PvP population, segregating the queues would not solve any problems, only create new ones for the people who enjoy playing in groups. Get it? It's not about maintaining the status quo. It's about preserving what little fun grouped players can still have. Since it is a team-oriented game, that fact must enter into the equation.

This isn't about preserving premades rights to stomp on PUGs. It's about preserving the ability to enjoy the game with friends. The solution presented in the OP only allows 2 types of queuing: full 5-man teams and solo. What happens to the 2 or 3 guys who want to queue together? They don't have the option under the proposed queue types. That isn't right.
What assumptions are you referencing?

How is allowing players to choose their preferred pvp game format a threat to team based PVP? Those who dislike team play are not returning to the now-silent PVP queues anyway, so they are not part of the currently remaining team PVP community. Your solution still advocates shoe-horning everyone in the same arena for no reason other than to support an unpopular and already-failed team-only PVP format.

I'd like to see Cryptic make the non-teamed queue as a special limited time test event just to see what happens. If no one uses it, then you get to say I-told-U-so. On the other hand, if it actually succeeds in pulling casual players back into PVP, then I get confirmation of what I've been saying all along. But until that happens, please quit spreading Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt (aka FUD) -- making conclusions about a feature that isn't even live doesn't help anyone.

Last edited by shar487a; 12-27-2012 at 10:58 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,793
# 33
12-27-2012, 11:16 PM
Failed my ass. I have no problems getting the queues to pop. It's only carebears who have sworn PvP off altogether.

If premades and pugmades were such a determent, then you wouldn't see anyone queuing up without a team anymore.


Click here and here if you are interested in learning more about PvP.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 14,480
# 34
12-27-2012, 11:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by snoge00f View Post
I have no problems getting the queues to pop.
Often it's a timezone thing. I look at those 4 min averages and generally leave the queues after 10-15 min. Hell, even waiting 5-10 min is often too much for me and I'll drop queue around 5 min. I don't have that kind of patience. I'd rather just go to Ker'rat - facing all the potential nonsense there rather than wait for a queue to pop... just don't have that kind of patience.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,207
# 35
12-27-2012, 11:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by snoge00f View Post
Failed my ass. I have no problems getting the queues to pop. It's only carebears who have sworn PvP off altogether.

If premades and pugmades were such a determent, then you wouldn't see anyone queuing up without a team anymore.
So, how many players did you see in there? And how many times did you get the consistent start?
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,793
# 36
12-27-2012, 11:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
Often it's a timezone thing. I look at those 4 min averages and generally leave the queues after 10-15 min. Hell, even waiting 5-10 min is often too much for me and I'll drop queue around 5 min. I don't have that kind of patience. I'd rather just go to Ker'rat - facing all the potential nonsense there rather than wait for a queue to pop... just don't have that kind of patience.
Yeah it probably is timezone related. I see a lot of Germans in the queues a lot of the time. But even during the day (PST), I'll see people.


Click here and here if you are interested in learning more about PvP.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,217
# 37
12-27-2012, 11:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by brandonfl View Post
It is a choice and there are always options. As I said in another thread. The resources are available. I've seen more new players in OPVP tonight, asking for teams, than I have ever seen before.
There is a requirement to that you're ignoring...

they have to KNOW about it FIRST. The only reason I know OPVP exists, is because I spend a lot of time in the forums, in the PvP section, reading and occasionally participating in discussions.

but even so, I represent maybe .00001% of potential PvP players in doing this. so MUCH of the game is 'tribal knowledge' in that it goes undocumented and is only learned of from player-to-player, that someone not quite as experienced in Gaming communities might well overlook, or be hesitant to try, the things you're taking for granted.

(Like knowing a dozen or so channels in the chat system when they're not on the menu.)

I began this thread as a form of "Thought Experiment" (hence the title) where, in the tradition of scientific inquiry, the concept is floated, to be demolished if possible-"Find the Flaws" so to speak, but the discussion's deeper than I expected-there are feelings and I dare say reputations involved here.

in that order.

I find this rather surprising.
"when you're out of Birds of Prey, you're out of ships."

I play KDF, because being a genocidal maniac works better with Klingons, than explaining it as a member of Starfleet.
Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 317
# 38
12-28-2012, 12:02 AM
Simple thing is it would end up better then expected and they just cant have that can they.

i can make all the assumptions i want by the way most of them may be out there but there is some truth to them i promise you that...

and right now is stupid the only people that join up as randoms are ones that have no choice.and frankly if those fleeties want to pvp they still can IF what we say isnt wrong and people are not being put off by Pugmade premades and fleet made premades.

until this is even tried we won't know but i have a sneaky suspicion that we are right and not you.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,217
# 39
12-28-2012, 12:50 AM
"Right" or "Wrong" is certainly a better argument than "Good" or "evil". I get the sense that much of the opposition feels they are being accused of bullying, and knowing something about people, I'm fairly sure even Bullies don't like to be accused of it, much less people who maybe don't bully.

But Hypothetically, now, how many que'd games are one-sided team-vs-group versus how many games are largely equal, not private games now, but the public ones?

How many Teams started out as individuals-building themselves by meeting on the digital battlefield? I would suspect the older teams, the PvP fleets and such, had that sort of origin.

('cause I suspect, but can't prove, that PvP predated Fleets by some time...)

I could be wrong on that second point. Somebody who's been here since Beta could probably clarify that.

what I DO see, however, is a lot of fear here. If the OPvP channel's had the kind of increase that some claim, then a second, non-teamed que shouldn't heavily impact it, certainly the growth of PvP bootcamp indicates a stronger interest in PvP than present Que activity would indicate.

BUT... where is the fear coming from?

expanded hypothesis: Teams need target practice to get and stay good, Puggies make good targets.

(and if they can't find a match, we usually/often see them in Ker'rat, laying ambush at the spawn point with Tric mine spreads and whatever new gadget they haven't the guts to take into Organized matches for fear of the stigma.)

If you take the targets, and give them an out that effectively lockes off the practicing teams, they will be sad.


Reason I put it that specific way, is that it's the undertone of the opposition-"their que will DIE", they say, "What aobut playing with our FRIENDS??" they say. But here's the thing: if teams are that scarce, then "Teamwork" isn't the core value they're trumpeting it to be, is it?
"when you're out of Birds of Prey, you're out of ships."

I play KDF, because being a genocidal maniac works better with Klingons, than explaining it as a member of Starfleet.
Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 317
# 40
12-28-2012, 12:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickngo View Post
Reason I put it that specific way, is that it's the undertone of the opposition-"their que will DIE", they say, "What aobut playing with our FRIENDS??" they say. But here's the thing: if teams are that scarce, then "Teamwork" isn't the core value they're trumpeting it to be, is it?
could not have said it better myself seriously.

thus being the case there will be no shortage of teams of less than 5 to join together yes their wait will be slightly longer possibly but that will be the case even if this isn't done you can't pigeon hole everyone into the team ques after a couple curb stomps they wont come back and thus pvp will lose some potential players.

the pvp in this game during season 2 was amazing sides for a few skills like viral matrix.

we cant look back now however only forward and without somewhere for the less experienced to play and get better without being cattle for slaughter eventually the churn of the current pvpers may leave pvp barren.

this being a good solution for the short term to keep it going until such a date as they can fix it for good.

P.S.

eventually those that are using this will want to be in a team with friends or will have been absorbed into a pvp fleet and will enter the team ques thus maybe giving you a better challenge and more fun in the end.

Last edited by kamipoi; 12-28-2012 at 01:00 AM.
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