Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 13,592
# 31
12-27-2012, 01:28 PM
I definately think the system of rewards needs a bit more fine tuning. Such as using the average completion time to determine rewards and ditching the wrapper and qualification criteria.
HAIL HYDRA!

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
I can haz joystick!
MMOs aren't charities. Corporations are supposed to make a profit. It's what they do.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 773
# 32
12-27-2012, 01:33 PM
Duke, I will say that I could chose a less emotionally charged word than whining, but it basically boils down to the same thing. And I agree, it is human nature to complain or whine, what ever you want to call it. I don't really think that gives someone the right to scream exploit, and honestly, the foundry authors are just one group that is on my nerves about that sort of behavior, the next PvP or PvE foram rager that gets me going I will probably jump into as well, this thread was just the first that caught my eye today. But I keep drifting more and more off topic, so I will end my contribution to this thread with what the OP asked for.

No, I don't think this is an exploit, defining exploit as getting something easier than it should be. No matter how I play this mission, or any other mission like this, it will take about 15 minutes, and in the same amount of time I get approximately the same amount of reward with other content.

Is this "anathema to the spirit of the Foundry?" Well, I think that depends on what you think the foundry is. If you think its only for fan fiction stories, then yes. On the other hand, I could very easily make this a story mission, just put some filler text around it, make one of the BOFFs say something like, "Captain, you need to active this obvious trap console behind this wall that will appear out of nowhere." And then, "Oh no captain, its a trap that I totally just did not say would be there five seconds ago. We have to defend ourselves." Well, I'm being silly, but the point is there. I don't think you or anyone has the right to judge what someone does with the foundry, with the exception of Cryptic, and as far as I know they seem to think its fine. Personally, I don't have a problem with it, and I fail to see why you do. Its not advertizing itself as anything but what it is, a grinder. Anyone looking for stories will pass it by unless they are brain dead. And why do you want someone like that to play your mission? Chances are they're not going to like it, will give it one star, and not give you a tip.

Anyway, I've said the rest of what I could say before, so I'll leave it at that, and I'll start a new thread if I have more I want to say on the general subject.
Joined September 2011
Nouveau riche LTS member
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 845
# 33
12-27-2012, 01:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kirksplat View Post
I think it's true that we are writing and designing missions for an entirely different kind of Trek game, rather than what this game has become. These missions that annoy us or sadden us are quite frankly more in-line with what STO has become post S6.


Is it pretty? No, but neither are most of the Cryptic missions that a. have no story and b. cater to the LCD.
Pretty much have to agree with this, unfortunately.

What bothers me is there's no way to allow people who do want story to easily find those type of missions with the current search tool.


Click here for my Foundry tutorial on Creating A Custom Interior Map.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,900
# 34
12-27-2012, 01:38 PM
Since we're being constructive again, I agree about ditching the wrapper.

What we need is just a system that records how much time the player took to complete the foundry mission and awards out the dilithium/fleet marks accordingly at the conclusion of whatever mission they were playing.

So if you play a mission for 15 minutes, you get whatever dil 15 minutes would get you elsewhere in the game. If you play for an hour, you get an hours worth. You must finish the mission though, and put a cap on how much you can earn each day.

This way its on the player to put in whatever time they choose and they will be rewarded accordingly. It wouldn't be dependent on authors jumping through a million hoops to meet some arbitrary qualification standard. Authors can make what they like. Then we need a better search system so players can play what they like without having to sift through what they don't.
The Foundry Roundtable live Wednesdays at 7:30PM EST/4:30PM PST on twitch.tv/thefoundryroundtable
Forum Logic dictates that if the devs don't do what a poster wants, they therefor actively hate what that poster is advocating for.
Forum Logic =/= Real Logic

Last edited by drogyn1701; 12-27-2012 at 01:42 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,054
# 35
12-27-2012, 02:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by drogyn1701 View Post

What we need is just a system that records how much time the player took to complete the foundry mission and awards out the dilithium/fleet marks accordingly at the conclusion of whatever mission they were playing.

The most popular mission would be a bar full of dancing Orions where these grinders just stand around in while watching TV in real life. Cash out for dilithium with each episode of TNG.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 181
# 36
12-27-2012, 02:58 PM
Well there were some good points in your argumentation, malkarris. You made me rethink my statement. Do I like Grinding missions? No. Do I prefer Story mission? Yes. Does this give me the right to tell players which missions to play? Definitively not.

To be honest: I played the klingon mission with my new klingon toon (captain lvl) and little to no equiped BOFFs. They were killed every wave so I had to come out of my hiding place and help them. So in this case it was far away from an afk mission because I spent 20-30 minutes with killing wave after wave. It was sooooo boring

I think what made me so angry at the first moment was that there are (from my point of view) much better written and "designed" missions which deserve that high rankings more. But at the end it's just my personal taste and as we all know people/players like different things.

Kirksplat put it in a nutshell quite well.

So far... I continue playing Foundry Challenge #5 missions now. Maybe some of them don't reward me with Dillithium but at least they "reward" me with something different. At the end it's a (your) game... it's your imagination... play whatever mission-style you prefer.
Actually I regret "wasting" my time with that Grinding mission today

Outer space is large enough so everone can find his/her place.

Greetings Nahari
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,900
# 37
12-27-2012, 02:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kirksplat View Post
The most popular mission would be a bar full of dancing Orions where these grinders just stand around in while watching TV in real life. Cash out for dilithium with each episode of TNG.
That's why I say there should be a cap. If they want to just stand around for their two hours or whatever a day let em. Pretty pathetic if you ask me, but it's their time to waste and they still have to put in the time, but its their choice to not get any entertainment value. Personally even if I was a grinder I wouldn't have the patients to sit and poke the mouse 4 times an hour. At least with my way it ain't maximum reward for minimum effort, which is what we have now.

And they wouldn't watch TNG, it doesn't reward dilithium.
The Foundry Roundtable live Wednesdays at 7:30PM EST/4:30PM PST on twitch.tv/thefoundryroundtable
Forum Logic dictates that if the devs don't do what a poster wants, they therefor actively hate what that poster is advocating for.
Forum Logic =/= Real Logic

Last edited by drogyn1701; 12-27-2012 at 03:13 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 547
# 38
12-27-2012, 03:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by malkarris View Post
...
IMHO, I think you are missing the point about the officer report mission. It is not designed for story missions, it is designed to be one way of maxing out on the daily dilithium. You can play 8 30 minute foundry missions and get your limit, or you can play 8 STFs and get your limit, or you can mix and match and add in some doff missions and get your limit. To me, looking at it, that is what that missions is for, another way to grind. And like STFs, it can be a fun way to grind, depending on your definition of fun. Now, if this was to be a story reward, the officer report missions would be something like what it was, a daily mission, but it would reward 8,000 dilithium, 50-400 fleet marks, depending on what cryptic feels like, and any mission would have to be an hour long and have at least ten screens of text. Actually, lets make it simple and say that it has to be a current or previously featured foundry mission. That way, the best foundry mission gets the best reward. And that is probably going to be the ONLY way you get the masses to play a story based foundry mission. And they will probably not leave any comments or good ratings.
I'm glad you started with IMHO, because I think we're going to need to agree to disagree here. It's my view it is the opposite. I'm pretty sure of it, because the development team was talking about rewarding players for playing foundry missions -before- dilithium and f2p was an option for them. Before PWE acquired them. They said they wanted to do it, but didn't want to introduce another silly badge mark thing that could only be used in some situations. They told us this. The reason we got the Investigate daily was not to full fill everyone being able to get 8k a day. It was so people wouldn't be penalized every time they wanted to play a foundry mission.

You and I play differently, I don't go for max a day. I pull 2-4k dl on my 4 toons on a daily basis. I get a lot of my DL from pugging elite space stfs when I have time, because I find it fun, even if I have to carry from time to time. And from the occasional foundry mission (that I now get from every mission instead of every 3). A real fair amount from contraband.

But, it's my belief here that you looking at the purpose of foundry being to supply DL and FMs to players is a faulty assumption. Something I think was built off of that history.

As far as Kirkfat's statement about what will happen in an individual timer representative reward is given. Yeah, probably will be a few missions where it is just hanging out, staring at dancing orions. Cryptic said they won't harp down on that. But, because they wont by trying to game the system constantly it will go back to what it was with the console clickers. Just one or two, because that's all people need. And then we go back to the old system, but, all of our missions are giving rewards, independent of time longer than 15 minutes. Better than 1 out of 3.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,900
# 39
12-27-2012, 03:31 PM
Or how about no rewards.

That way the only people playing Foundry missions are the ones that want to play them for the entertainment value, not for currency. The people who don't feel their time in game has been wasted if every second of it doesn't count towards a grind.

Those players are out there. The Foundry didn't ship with the wrapper and we still got plenty of plays. I know, I was there.
The Foundry Roundtable live Wednesdays at 7:30PM EST/4:30PM PST on twitch.tv/thefoundryroundtable
Forum Logic dictates that if the devs don't do what a poster wants, they therefor actively hate what that poster is advocating for.
Forum Logic =/= Real Logic
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 547
# 40
12-27-2012, 05:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by drogyn1701 View Post
Or how about no rewards.

That way the only people playing Foundry missions are the ones that want to play them for the entertainment value, not for currency. The people who don't feel their time in game has been wasted if every second of it doesn't count towards a grind.

Those players are out there. The Foundry didn't ship with the wrapper and we still got plenty of plays. I know, I was there.
Yeah, but, it's nice when people aren't penalized for doing them either. The idea of someone being able to level their 5th toon doing content other than Doff Assignments and the same mission sets is a cool idea.

Oh well, if things were easy they wouldn't be interesting.
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:44 PM.