Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 91
# 21
12-30-2012, 06:46 PM
I love the new system. With the old system I ran almost 1000 Elite STF's (about 800 were ground) and did not even complete a single ground mk xii set. I did see quite a few people around me getting the drops, some on their first runs. With the new system I ran about 50-75 ESTF's and after reaching T5 bought the Omega, Maco and Adapted Maco mkxii ground sets. Anyone who thinks this this new reputation system is more of a grind than the "lucky" drop system is either crazy or was one of those lucky people.

I like having goals to accomplish and with the reputation system you actually have attainable goals. The previous system was entirely random.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 495
# 22
12-30-2012, 07:16 PM
1. OP's wall of text clearly shows their thinking process without even reading the content of said wall. This immediately invalidates any creative thought that they have.

2. Earning marks is stupid easy. The required marks can be earned in under 100 STF runs for an entire MACO set... vs 1000's with no results under the old system due to a bad RNG. I wasn't one of the dopes that traded all their edc's and what not for DL even though it was a bad deal, so I barely had to run STFs anyway. With the winter event and the Tau Dewa sector block, I am sitting on 2000 Romulan marks and I don't know what I want to do with them....

3. Earning the EC to buy the other stuff is flat out disgustingly easy. When playing the game on Elite... I stumble upon the required EC in the first hour of play.

4. Doing officer reports and "Battleship Royal Rumble" every 30 minutes makes me so rich and is so fun that it makes me want to puke......

There is no grind for the rep system. I never ever went to myself... "Crap I gotta sign on to do some stfs or my rep projects wont keep moving..." Just regular play earned my way through and I work 50 hour work weeks and have a baby to take care of.. It is clear that some just don't understand STO or the numbers, or would rather chat on Drozana with their left hand on the keyboard and their right hand elsewhere...
1hr of work @NYS Min Wage 7.25 = 725 Zen
725 x 102 (or current exchange rate) DL = 73950 DL <- can you earn that per hour in game?

Join Date: Sep 2009 - I want my changeling lava lamp!

Last edited by phantomeight; 12-30-2012 at 07:20 PM.
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 11,022
# 23
12-30-2012, 08:17 PM
New system may be boring, but at least it isn't a waste of time.

So inhumane superweapons, mass murder, and canon nonsense is okay, but speedos are too much for some people.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 960
# 24
01-03-2013, 02:15 AM
Originally Posted by centersolace View Post
New system may be boring, but at least it isn't a waste of time.
Exactly this, but this conflict will NEVER be resolved, because what pro-diceroll folks want is diametrically opposed to what pro-rep folks want.

Pro-Rep folks want to know what they're getting, when they're getting it, and how much it will cost. The rep system does this, and at that point the only quibble is over the exact price. For the record, I'm pro-Rep, but it is generally a load of crap that I have to pay to unlock, then pay again to buy.

Pro-roll folks basically want to opportunity to luck out, regardless of whether or not this affects people other than themselves. They want to be the lucky first-timers that won the roll, or the person that opened a lockbox and got a Bug or whatever (though they're often the same folks that hypocritically complain about drop chances in lockboxes). They have time, and that's the only currency they want to pay, on the very small chance that they won't actually have to spend the time and get a windfall.

I don't like to sound accusatory, but Pro-Roll folks are basically being selfish, and the way gear works in STO works against the fairness of rolls. Why? Any drop in the game that's not a battery can make you money. As a free-to-play game, accumulating currencies is VERY important for advancement at the endgame. As a result, EVERYONE rolls need on EVERYTHING. The Need/Greed/Pass system and the etiquette that's built up around it is destroyed. It is nothing but a mad scramble for random chance.

I'm pro-Rep not because it makes it easier for me to get my sets (I lucked out pre-S7 on my Mk XI Borg and Maco sets). At the rate I make resources I'll be buying my Mk XIIs by STO's 6th Anniversary. Instead I'm pro-Rep but because it guarantees that EVERYONE will get their sets...eventually (including me). I've seen too many friends and guildmates go YEARS and never see the drop they want or need.

There's too much unhelpful randomness in the world as it is, we don't that much of it in our entertainments.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 104
# 25
01-03-2013, 11:19 AM
What I would love to see with the Reputation is better sorting of rewards or projects, the Mark X, XI, XII get bunched in a list, everything is just in a long list. Yes you can up or down arrow the little section, but it will not remember that once the character screen is closed. I'd like to see gear totally separate in Mark value with sections of Space, and Ground as a start.

Another improvement would be to actually list what I am getting. The MACO stuff will display the item I'm getting with full details. The Romulan stuff on the other hand only says it will unlock MK (tier here) Purple Rifles. Which I unlocked only to find there are NO split beams!

Plus the whole fact you have to do projects to get to the Tier level, I get that, but then have to "claim" the tier reward, then pay to unlock each weapon type, then pay who knows what for the actual item in the store, as it doesn't even tell you how much they will cost after you've spend the resource just to View it in the store tab.

Very Rare Romulan Plasma Beam Arrays Mk XII... ok what are they? What are the stats, the procs? Can I get a better one in the Exchange for a few million EC instead. No way to tell ATM. It just seems as a big rushed joke. I'll admin I have been only playing for 3 months now so perhaps this is the best of the best way of doing things in comparison to the past.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 29
# 26
01-03-2013, 12:52 PM
I believe that the new system is a huge improvement over the random loot tables we had before. I played more than 400 STFs and NEVER completed a single MK XII set (space or ground) on my FED and KDF toons. It was utterly frustrating!

I agree the new system needs some fine tuning (things cost a little too much, etc...) but I take the new system over the old anytime.

If I run 400 STFs on the new system I will receive at least:

75 Omega marks (yes, I always get the optional. Just don't pug!) = 30.000 total
960 dil x 400 = 384000 dil
1 BNP x 400 = 400 BNP (there are missions where I get 6 or 11)

With these rewards I can get pretty much what I need (I dont need every set on its X, XI and XII variants, only XII).
--- My sig begins here ---
Member since Jan 24th 2010 (more or less)
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 28
# 27 Still sucks
01-03-2013, 05:59 PM
If all people are going for is the Mk XII Gear MACO/OMEGA what is the point in haveing the MK X MK XI gear in the reputation system. If peole are moaning about The old system being unfair because it was to Random then what is the point in playing.... The entire game is based on random drops. The lock box's are a random drop where the game will only release a ship at a certain time through out the day. Drops in STF's Compleatly random. Why is it you get Green MK X gear in an Elite and Blue MK XI, Is this not Random. Or do we need a reputaion system to get random drops.

We could have a General reputation system that levels with your Captain. Starting at lvl1 you get LVL 1 gear and so on until LvL 50 where you can unlock MK XII purple gear. But instead of using E?C to buy them it will charge us a mixture Od Dilithium E/C latinum Omega marks Romulan marks. This way we can be 100% sure to get that MK XII purple Phaser rely you been wanting for the last year or so and the Neutronium Alloy MK XII for just as long. Is this not just as important as the MACO gear. Is it not worth just as much and needed also. This way we can be sure we get what we want with no risk of CHANCE or randomnisity ingame. This way we can all out fit our ships get the same gear same build and be all the same. Peolpe want things to easily with hardly any work. The random drop was more of a suprise and felt you worked with something of reward at the end. We still knew how to geth the Gear. What STF's to run to get what. Was a case of just doing it. They could easily have increased the drop rate and took into account who had the gear already and who didnt.
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2
# 28
01-04-2013, 06:12 AM
From the point of view of a new player like me the reputation system is still lacking in many way, for example it's lacking decent weapons and consoles; so the better solution was leaving the stf drop, maybe giving each stf a more defined loot table intested of random crap, and then implementing the reputation system to fill the gap.
Btw the real problem here is that aside the stf there is no better pve that demand and give better gear, in my opinion this game need stf designed for 20 ships.
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 374
# 29
01-04-2013, 07:24 AM
I do see where he's coming from. You grind and grind and grind and grind to level up the tiers in the Rep system, then, when you get to the FINAL TIER (which occurs to me, its gonna take you a minimum of ~40 days with all the projects and such) and THEN you need a crapton of Omega Marks and other resources to get what you want, and THEN that only unlocks them in the store? So THEN, you can go grind up some dilithium to actually BUY the things.

I personally feel like they can cut out the store part of it, at least for the STF sets. They are individual pieces of equipment and I think it makes more sense realistically for you to requisition a piece, submit your supplies, and then wait the time to get the piece without having to have the whole store thing in there. Besides, how many copies of the set piece are you going to need to justify having to unlock it in a STORE first?
More anything?
-Jerry Seinfeld on Star Trek Online Content

Foundry Works: Uncharted
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 14
# 30
01-07-2013, 06:00 AM
I played STO when it was first released but it was so utterly dismal back then that I quit until it went free2play / pay2win and now came back to give it a try.

I created a new character and am now VA since about a week and I'm sorry to say but I doubt I'll be here very much longer. The problem is that this game has little to no activities that feel even remotely "rewarding". I can grind the same 4-5 boring STFs until my fingers begin to rot (or I gouge my eyes out from boredom, whichever comes sooner) and then I don't even get anything except the right to grind some more.

What I also find simply terrible are the 20h time sinks for the reputation grind missions... What is the purpose of that time sink exactly? If you (Cryptic) are worried that people will get reputation too fast then you could at least have used your brains (or better yet: simply copied WOW) and give players the option to grind a maximum of, say, 15'000 reputation per week and faction (but without boring, pointless time sinks).

It's like they are trying to force people to play the game over the period of a few months (like many developers do in subscription-based games because that's how they earn their money) but in STO it would be far better to simply allow people to blast through the game as fast as possible, buy their iWin buttons and then quit.

I have no idea why ANYONE in their right mind would design a pay2win game without a subscription and then attempt to force people to spread out their "enjoyment" of the game over a few months instead of simply being able to blast through it in a few days (like a normal single player game). Because let's be honest: there is simply not enough content to keep a normal gamer entertained for more then a few days.

Isn't that exactly the intended purpose of a front-loaded payment system like STO has? So the developers don't actually have to provide any long-term goals because they don't have to care if people quit quickly, as long as they spent some cash on the store?

Anyway... The thought that I have to grind the same 5 boring STF for the badges and then waste my time by logging in every 20h for the next few months makes me puke. I'm never gonna do that. The game just isn't worth that sort of effort.

Just look at how the loot and reputation system works in WOW. Sure, that's not great either but compared to this utter fail system it wins hands down and makes STO seem like a cheap student project by comparison.

So in conclusion: If you want to keep me hooked to STO long enough so I might actually consider dropping any money on your (horrendously overpriced) store then remove all time sinks and accept that this is not a game that offers any long-term motivation. Better to remove all gating and time sinks and milk the customers more quickly. You'll earn more money and the players will not have to grind (and then, once they're bored they'll move on to other games but you don't have to care because you already got their cash).

This system makes no sense for a cash-shop-driven game. You don't want to keep people here, do you? You want them in McDonalds mode: come in, buy burgers, eat, leave.

Last edited by init0; 01-07-2013 at 06:09 AM.

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