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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 937
hi there.
just want to throw in a lil idea i got after fighting a team of 4 sci's (6 players in total on their side) in a c&h. i won't go in why i did not like that match ;D... this idea surely made it to the forums before, but i did not read anything on this for while, so:

wouldn't it be more appropiate if class-numbers were set before match-start? so there never would be more scis, tacs or engis on your team, than on the other.
f.e. in that match, given no sci was on my team, 2 scis would have been moved to my team and f.e. 2 tacs to the other team. only 1 more of any class could be on any team, regarding the fact that it's not given there will always be round numbers to spare.

this may would increase the waiting time to have a que started, but i'd be fine with that, because i believe most matches would be more balanced (i know: balance is a tricky word ). may just show which classes already qued on any side.

also it may forces premades to more diversity to get a match started. f.e. actually sometimes i like to go with premade tac-teams which mostly lead to some kind of stomp. no problem here with giving that up;
don't get me wrong: i also do think sci is the most powerful class ingame right now, but that would be an other discussion (no posts regarding this plz)!
i hope it became clear what i mean, english is not my mother-tongue.

i know that idea is not worked out, so plz add some critical thoughts or just tell me to not think about furthermore . thx for your time.

Klink: House of Beautiful - J'Luc / Rommie: Lag Industries - D'Waste
Join Date Hoster: Dec 2011 - Join Date Symbiont: 1403 A.D. and not a dull moment
PLZ ADD MARKS-TO-CHOOSE PACKS AND AFK/LEAVER PENALTY TO PVP PUBLIC QUES (not privates!)
AND DON'T TOUCH OUR DIL!!!

Last edited by wast33; 03-12-2013 at 04:27 AM.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 232
# 2
03-12-2013, 06:18 AM
agreed but the premade, "win at all cost cheeze spammers" would whine
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 3
03-12-2013, 08:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wast33 View Post
hi there.
wouldn't it be more appropiate if class-numbers were set before match-start?
Any reason you didn't build your own team, with your friends or fleet or the Organized PvP channel?


Quote:
Originally Posted by wast33 View Post
so there never would be more scis, tacs or engis on your team, than on the other.
This would make the wait in the ques take a long, long, time.


I recommend forming your own team first.

Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,192
# 4
03-12-2013, 09:02 AM
What is the point of forming a team, when the public queue system will throw a random pug against you, and not another premade? Not sure when you last pugged, but when I do my 5-10 arena matches per day, 80% of the time there is a different premade against my pug. Not generally complaining about the premade themself, but the queue system match making. But changing that is planned for season 101 or something.

Forming a team for public queues means stomping pugs 90% of the time. Waste of time and no fun.

Forming a team makes sense only for private matches IMHO.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 937
# 5
03-12-2013, 09:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ussultimatum View Post
Any reason you didn't build your own team, with your friends or fleet or the Organized PvP channel?
i like pugging too. also many folks on my friends-list are just dps-junkies like me. in my fleet that's not the case in that manner, but not every time there are folks who like to team up when i want to .

Quote:
Originally Posted by ussultimatum View Post
This would make the wait in the ques take a long, long, time.


I recommend forming your own team first.
i do go in premades sometimes (also sometimes with some diversity), but when pugging i sometimes approach very un-balanced teams reffering to classes.
also plz consider that it not means the whole que has to wait till 3 engs are on each side f.e.. the teams also could be tacs 4/3, scis 1/1, engs 0/1 f.e.. so the que would balance what's there and not wait till certain class slots were filled.
this would blow premades, yes. but may a solution would be to divide pugging from premades:
what about a league for premades only, and pugging just for fun?

Klink: House of Beautiful - J'Luc / Rommie: Lag Industries - D'Waste
Join Date Hoster: Dec 2011 - Join Date Symbiont: 1403 A.D. and not a dull moment
PLZ ADD MARKS-TO-CHOOSE PACKS AND AFK/LEAVER PENALTY TO PVP PUBLIC QUES (not privates!)
AND DON'T TOUCH OUR DIL!!!

Last edited by wast33; 03-12-2013 at 09:24 AM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 6
03-12-2013, 09:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dalnar83 View Post
What is the point of forming a team, when the public queue system will throw a random pug against you, and not another premade?

Not sure when you last pugged, but when I do my 5-10 arena matches per day, 80% of the time there is a different premade against my pug.
These are two conflicting statements.

You are saying there is no point to forming a team, because you will fight a PUG and then go on to say that 80% of the time you are in a PUG fighting a premade...*


If more people formed more teams beforehand, then there would be more non-PUG teams in the ques.


Not creating a team only continues to make more teams be PUG teams.





*That logic reminds me of this:

?The odds against there being a bomb on a plane are a million to one, and against two bombs a million times a million to one. Next time you fly, cut the odds and take a bomb.?

-Benny Hill


Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,192
# 7
03-12-2013, 09:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ussultimatum View Post
These are two conflicting statements.

You are saying there is no point to forming a team, because you will fight a PUG and then go on to say that 80% of the time you are in a PUG fighting a premade...


If more people formed more teams beforehand, then there would be more non-PUG teams in the ques.


Not creating a team only continues to make more teams be PUG teams.
That's not conflicting statement...that's how the random queues work. The typical weekend (euro time) for me, is to have 5 matches in row, always against different premade from different fleet.

Bad luck ? Nah, bad match making system (or rather non-existant).
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 98
# 8
03-12-2013, 09:34 AM
When our team forms up for pvp we typically see 40% pre-made 60% pugs (and of those 60 at least a third of them aren't your typical pugs, they are on voice comms of some sort judging by the coordination of alpha strikes, subnukes, target switching and cross-healing.)

Maybe we're just lucky!

Not sure how people feel about that really big MMO that some arbitrary number of millions of people play, but their lfg dungeon system created a bottleneck queue for dps classes waiting on healers and tanks to enter queue. Assuming STO doesn't have anything close to approaching the number of available players, and dividing that by the number of players who actually queue for pvp...do you think we have enough to not only balance the classes of players getting into queue, but also separate pre-made and pug-made teams into their own queues?
24 Hours a day, 365 days a week.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 937
# 9
03-12-2013, 09:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ussultimatum View Post

If more people formed more teams beforehand, then there would be more non-PUG teams in the ques.

you're right with that, but it's only half of the guess i'd say :
some just don't like to go in premades all the time, they just want to que and have fun without the need of socialising in any sense. and then their odds of having fun when been throwing against a premade are kinda low.

indeed many folks on my friends list first ripped me off in pugs. guess i may wouldn't even haved noticed them if they were in premades all the time, just because of the expection of fail.
... also fought some matches where we, the pugs, beaten that premade to hell , but thats not happening more often than the other way round.

such a system as suggested would at least balance the sides regarding to classes, which indeed would lead to much more balance than we have right now i'd say.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dummyname View Post
do you think we have enough to not only balance the classes of players getting into queue, but also separate pre-made and pug-made teams into their own queues?
good point. i fear you're right with that, but indeed the way it is isn't that better, or is it?

Klink: House of Beautiful - J'Luc / Rommie: Lag Industries - D'Waste
Join Date Hoster: Dec 2011 - Join Date Symbiont: 1403 A.D. and not a dull moment
PLZ ADD MARKS-TO-CHOOSE PACKS AND AFK/LEAVER PENALTY TO PVP PUBLIC QUES (not privates!)
AND DON'T TOUCH OUR DIL!!!

Last edited by wast33; 03-12-2013 at 09:50 AM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 10
03-12-2013, 09:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dalnar83 View Post
That's not conflicting statement...that's how the random queues work. The typical weekend (euro time) for me, is to have 5 matches in row, always against different premade from different fleet.

Bad luck ? Nah, bad match making system (or rather non-existant).


The point is that if you brought your own team, you would no longer be in a PUG vs. a premade.

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