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The soldier is the ultimate bully and coward. He believes might makes right and hides behind the pretense of 'honor' to hide the evil inherent in his claim
"You speak of freedom and of peace? the soldier gave you both."
Answer to a vietnam protestor from a US army major
Agreed. If you want peace you need to fight for it.
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Honor is meaningless. Doing the right thing is what counts. It also has nothing to do with being a soldier......
it has everything to do with it
A good soldier is fighting for his people his friends and his neighbours
Agreed.
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he fights with honour , discipline and courage
And he respects his enemy.
Respect? Why respect the guy you're about to kill?
If you're going to kill someone in battle, take them out as quickly as possible. If that means stabbing them in the back, so be it.
Section-31 is a requirement in a cold and unforgiving universe, the Federation is an organisation where everything seems perfect inside it's borders but on the outside it is fighting against powers that would destroy everything that it had worked so hard to achieve. Section-31 protects the existence of the Federation.
I loved the Section-31 episodes in DS9, what I didn't love was how we were expected to side with Bashir's ethic's, they didn't make sense especially during a war and were just completely naive which is what Sloan had to regularly point out.
{UFP}Thomas45 - Thomas Nixon U.S.S. Majesty Unbound
Last edited by thomas12255; 12-31-2012 at 11:26 AM.
There isn't a single country past, present or future that does not have some form of organization that is outside of the government that can act on the interests of that government when buy law or other restrictions the government can not act directly.
In the case of Star Trek Section 31 is actually very overly common knowledge, but that's because it's a show/movie. In real life there would be extremely few people that knew of the organizations existence and ever less about the inner workings.
"yes your bum does look big in that" or "No im afraid the cancer is terminal you have NO hope"
I'd still want the truth regardless.
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Originally Posted by sollvax
nah
Small place near Egypt is the one making the threats
but politics so better not
All I can say, is Team America: World Police is not just a movie
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Originally Posted by sollvax
But he did order gas attacks on Kurds
and commit many other sins (including hiding while comrades died )
Nothing compared to Addie though...
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Originally Posted by sollvax
OPENLY not covertly
Absolutely, I never thought otherwise...
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Originally Posted by sollvax
actually it does
had he not been caught he would have let them die
Which could be said for any soldier carrying out their orders... While I can't deny that he was indeed saving his own life in the process, he still saved other lives, rather than simply letting the bomb go off and taking his chances...
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Originally Posted by sollvax
the UK will never be a dictatorship while it has a monarchy and an army
the USA might have problems due to the financial cliff
All it would take would be enough of a civil uprising for the royal family to be dealt with French/Russian-style, and a few major politicians to be taken out, and it could happen... The way things're going at the moment with cutbacks on disability benefits, I think it's only the fact that we're not allowed private ownership of handguns which is keeping the Prime Minister alive...
As for the USA, I don't want to sound like a tin-foil hatter (but I have friends who are) and things in CONUS are starting to look very scary from here in the 51st State... Ever-increasing measures of surveillance of the citizenry by Homeland Security, FEMA camps being established all across the country, and enough terrible public shootings to get people considering giving up their 2nd amendment rights, things are definitley not looking good for the 'land of the free'...
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Originally Posted by sollvax
rules and regulations are not the be all and end all
I agree, hence why I feel that if someone is given unjust orders, or the Leadership are corrupt, the officer has the duty to act against them (much like you feel that Dougherty's attache and staff should've turned against him... I agree with the sentiment, I just don't feel those were unjust orders, but we have had that conversation before )
Last edited by marcusdkane; 12-31-2012 at 11:56 AM.
This is getting a bit political again.
We here (England) are nowhere near a dictatorship, it would take a hell of a lot to ever even approach that area.
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Originally Posted by sollvax
Depends on the truth
"yes your bum does look big in that" or "No im afraid the cancer is terminal you have NO hope"
I'd still want the truth regardless.
I didn't
they told me I was diabetic and ruined my bloody life
(Id rather have died)
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Originally Posted by sollvax
nah
Small place near Egypt is the one making the threats
but politics so better not
All I can say, is Team America: World Police is not just a movie
no its also a comic book and a rather good album
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Originally Posted by sollvax
But he did order gas attacks on Kurds
and commit many other sins (including hiding while comrades died )
Nothing compared to Addie though...
Had the allies LOST the war Churchill would be treated the same in literature and movies
the winner writes the historys
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Originally Posted by sollvax
OPENLY not covertly
Absolutely, I never thought otherwise...
then we can agree on that
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Originally Posted by sollvax
actually it does
had he not been caught he would have let them die
Which could be said for any soldier carrying out their orders... While I can't deny that he was indeed saving his own life in the process, he still saved other lives, rather than simply letting the bomb go off and taking his chances...
yep
COWARD
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Originally Posted by sollvax
the UK will never be a dictatorship while it has a monarchy and an army
the USA might have problems due to the financial cliff
All it would take would be enough of a civil uprising for the royal family to be dealt with French/Russian-style, and a few major politicians to be taken out, and it could happen...
not on my watch
Remember the french have come to rue the day
and the Russians didn't get them all
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The way things're going at the moment with cutbacks on disability benefits, I think it's only the fact that we're not allowed private ownership of handguns which is keeping the Prime Minister alive...
you want him gone?
Vote him out
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As for the USA, I don't want to sound like a tin-foil hatter (but I have friends who are) and things in CONUS are starting to look very scary from here in the 51st State... Ever-increasing measures of surveillance of the citizenry by Homeland Security, FEMA camps being established all across the country, and enough terrible public shootings to get people considering giving up their 2nd amendment rights, things are definitley not looking good for the 'land of the free'...
Cheer up homeland security are a bloody joke (they are about as much use as the warmington on sea home guard)
Quote:
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Originally Posted by sollvax
rules and regulations are not the be all and end all
I agree, hence why I feel that if someone is given unjust orders, or the Leadership are corrupt, the officer has the duty to act against them (much like you feel that Dougherty's attache and staff should've turned against him... I agree with the sentiment, I just don't feel those were unjust orders, but we have had that conversation before )
an illegal order MUST be disobeyed
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Respect? Why respect the guy you're about to kill
?
yes as he respects you
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If you're going to kill someone in battle, take them out as quickly as possible. If that means stabbing them in the back, so be it.
bad move
then his side will do the same to you
face him
fight with honour and respect
and if he surrenders treat him according to the laws of war
This is getting a bit political again.
We here (England) are nowhere near a dictatorship, it would take a hell of a lot to ever even approach that area.
As I said, enough of an uprising, and I can see it happening. Look at how Atos are targeting the disabled... If there was still private ownership of handguns, I wouldn't've been surprised if someone hadn't taken a shot at Cameron and Osbourne by now...
We didn't vote the Tories in they got in due to not enough votes for Labour and the spineless Lib Dems. Just look at the reaction Osbourn got at the Olympics.
As for all the stuff about honour. The goal is winning, at any cost that isn't bring you down with the enemy is a good cost.
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