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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,499
# 41
01-04-2013, 10:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thissler View Post
I really really really don't want to give you to much traction here. I'll just agree with everything you say and then just let that go away. Like it never happened.

The vet ship CLEARLY is better.

There are ways to compete in PVP without any of that though. We can show you someone being competitive and having a good time in common gear. Not a huge deal. Do you get to do ANYTHING YOU WANT PEW PEW PEW for that. Not so much

But anywhere in life do you really get to do anything you want with little to no money down? And it works out well? Honest.

First off, and let's get back on topic, you get a wingman. You could get someone to fly with that knows more than you do. You could get help. It's an mmo.

Second you could learn a few things about the state of the game and defense/resistance and how to apply that to your ship.

So on the cheap you could maybe put together a Sci ship that was very sturdy and you could have a good time with because you wouldn't die right off the bat. Is that a bad thing? Maybe you don't WANT to fly a Sci ship forever, but is that to much to ask that maybe you start there and learn?

Please don't think this isn't possible, cause I'll just link ANOTHER boring video of a ship in all common gear, pleain t5, doing just that.

I think all these guys (and certainly myself) were saying is that not everyone feels the need to beat someone to death using "P2W" items. In my case thats strictly because I'm not bright enough to make them work. I'm sure those others COULD if they wanted. So people that DO enjoy that sort of behavior you may want to avoid for just those reasons and people that DON'T enjoy that sort of behavior you may want to seek out because they will likely assist you in learning about PVP.

There is an edge to that gear, but not as bad as you may think, and certainly not hard to counter. Please, get a wingman, and practice.

And zing I guess this sorta points back at pvp bootcamp etc.

And this isn't specially aimed at you, and the facts you brought up ARE facts no doubt. Just adding that in spite of those facts there are clear ways to overcome that gap.

Cheers and happy flying.

And Horizon....I WANT MY SOCKS BACK!
Not sure why you think I need to L2P. Like you wrote I presented facts. Those facts show how easy it is to make the Boffs 30% or more better in terms of uptime. There are a crap ton of passive consoles that also increase the power creep. Just like the Rep System skills increase the power creep. Who are you kidding? This is like those who denied the roids of the late 90s baseball. It matters and it's here.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,487
# 42
01-04-2013, 11:13 AM
i use the vet ships all the time, they are great, but their turn rate disadvantage will deny them positioning and up time on their weapons, and they have to be slowed or reversing more often. they are easy prey for other escorts regardless of how fast their able to use abilities thanks to tech doffs. all the escorts they compete with nowadays have better shield mods too, spike cuts them in half. pulling off BOP like 1 shot alphas will be quite a bit more difficult in it then in a bop, they can be kind of awkward, and with a bug like impulse mod very jerky. if you fly past someone you cant turn on a dime like a bop or a bug can. its a very dynamic escort, but it pays a price. low maneuverability, low stats, and only 8 consoles thanks to it's special console, 4 of which are tac consoles.
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,499
# 43
01-04-2013, 11:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
i use the vet ships all the time, they are great, but their turn rate disadvantage will deny them positioning and up time on their weapons, and they have to be slowed or reversing more often. they are easy prey for other escorts regardless of how fast their able to use abilities thanks to tech doffs. all the escorts they compete with nowadays have better shield mods too, spike cuts them in half. pulling off BOP like 1 shot alphas will be quite a bit more difficult in it then in a bop, they can be kind of awkward, and with a bug like impulse mod very jerky. if you fly past someone you cant turn on a dime like a bop or a bug can. its a very dynamic escort, but it pays a price. low maneuverability, low stats, and only 8 consoles thanks to it's special console, 4 of which are tac consoles.
To be clear I've been bringing up the KDF Vet ship as an example of overall power creep. I even pointed out it's poor shield mods especially in Tactical mode in a previous post to be fair regarding its drawbacks. I used the Vet ship b/c I fly it and didn't want anyone thinking I was looking to get a ship I don't use nerfed, again this is in the context of the overall unbalanced, often broken power creep introduced this last year or so.

Seriously, take a team of quality players and make them use all common gear/doffs/ships (ie no Zen, special promo, Fleet ships base ships only) no rep points and then give a team of like quality players access to any and all ships/gear w/rep points who do you think would win and how close do you think it'd be?
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,132
# 44
01-04-2013, 11:50 AM
I'd take that challenge. Me, Brandon, Monkeys, Bieber, and another great Sci... Like say... Kai.... Also sub in Hilbert, Hammel, or Trinity.... Or Pax and Yoda and Hank.... for any of the afore mentioned players.

We run vanilla builds. Give us a few days to get coordinated/ and fine tune out builds since we all don't fly together at all.

Bring any spammed out consoled out team you can. Whatever gear. Give me 3 nukes and the pilots listed above, We will turn their hulls into heaps of burning rubble.

Have fun kill bad guys

-thrusters on full-

PS... I only say this because all of these players do this already. It would jut require obtaining weapons of less quality.

Edit: although split those guys into 2 teams and give 1 of them even 1 special toy... It would be skewed. An would come down to shot calling and game plan changes on the fly.

Last edited by thishorizon; 01-04-2013 at 11:52 AM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,742
# 45
01-04-2013, 12:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by p2wsucks View Post
Not sure why you think I need to L2P. Like you wrote I presented facts. Those facts show how easy it is to make the Boffs 30% or more better in terms of uptime. There are a crap ton of passive consoles that also increase the power creep. Just like the Rep System skills increase the power creep. Who are you kidding? This is like those who denied the roids of the late 90s baseball. It matters and it's here.
Here you go let me help you out.

You need to learn to read okay? If you can't read and understand what is written you really don't belong on a public forum.

"And this isn't specially aimed at you, and the facts you brought up ARE facts no doubt. Just adding that in spite of those facts there are clear ways to overcome that gap."

That's what I actually wrote. What part of that can you not understand?

And please don't twist my words. I never disputed your facts. The half ass arguements you derived afterwards aren't facts. It's a bunch of half assed arguments. If you can't see the difference maybe you need to study Rhetoric or Logic.

If you want to play the angry little man card and say there's no way to compete you go ahead. You want to quote your own half assed some **** I made up stuff you go ahead.

Who are you kidding? Really?


So learn to read.

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Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,761
# 46
01-04-2013, 12:08 PM
The Chimera is an awesome vessel (I'm not an evul Klingun but I know the KDF vet is also very dangerous) for a Tac Captain running an Aux to Bat build, powerful almost as an escort and much faster than a too slow cruiser and also quite resistant with a reduced RSP cd.
Timing and a perfect set of keybinds are essential and you should always think before acting because the lack of aux power can make you defenseless.
Her special console transforms the common single Acc AP weapons into a living accurate high crits hell, but you have to be ready to activate an aux battery at the right moment when ganked hard.
The more fascinating feature imho is the Univ Boff ensign, because it opens up exciting possibilities mostly for enhancing tactical or scientific skills.
Obviously the Univ LCom must be an eng to chain two Aux to Bat 1.
In any case a burst of speed (EM+EPtE) is very useful to escape a terrific DHC close barrage, it's always necessary to avoid any ability shared cd, changing distribution power is a must.
Overall this is a very effective ship but really not OP.
After a fierce battle against the evuls a Fed Captain needs some relax!
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,499
# 47
01-04-2013, 12:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thissler View Post
Here you go let me help you out.

You need to learn to read okay? If you can't read and understand what is written you really don't belong on a public forum.

"And this isn't specially aimed at you, and the facts you brought up ARE facts no doubt. Just adding that in spite of those facts there are clear ways to overcome that gap."

That's what I actually wrote. What part of that can you not understand?

And please don't twist my words. I never disputed your facts. The half ass arguements you derived afterwards aren't facts. It's a bunch of half assed arguments. If you can't see the difference maybe you need to study Rhetoric or Logic.

If you want to play the angry little man card and say there's no way to compete you go ahead. You want to quote your own half assed some **** I made up stuff you go ahead.

Who are you kidding? Really?


So learn to read.
Kind of ironic "learn to read" since your previous post did bring up P2W and I haven't brought that term up 1x in this thread unless you count my forum handle.

"I think all these guys (and certainly myself) were saying is that not everyone feels the need to beat someone to death using "P2W" items."

What I brought up was power creep.

"I really really really don't want to give you to much traction here. I'll just agree with everything you say and then just let that go away. Like it never happened.

The vet ship CLEARLY is better.

There are ways to compete in PVP without any of that though. We can show you someone being competitive and having a good time in common gear. Not a huge deal. Do you get to do ANYTHING YOU WANT PEW PEW PEW for that. Not so much

But anywhere in life do you really get to do anything you want with little to no money down? And it works out well? Honest.

First off, and let's get back on topic, you get a wingman. You could get someone to fly with that knows more than you do. You could get help. It's an mmo.

Second you could learn a few things about the state of the game and defense/resistance and how to apply that to your ship.

So on the cheap you could maybe put together a Sci ship that was very sturdy and you could have a good time with because you wouldn't die right off the bat. Is that a bad thing? Maybe you don't WANT to fly a Sci ship forever, but is that to much to ask that maybe you start there and learn?"

I count over 10 "you" pronouns in the above quote. You did direct a great deal of l2play in my direction. Adding a "this isn't specifically at you" at the end doesn't change the implications.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,499
# 48
01-04-2013, 12:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thishorizon View Post
I'd take that challenge. Me, Brandon, Monkeys, Bieber, and another great Sci... Like say... Kai.... Also sub in Hilbert, Hammel, or Trinity.... Or Pax and Yoda and Hank.... for any of the afore mentioned players.

We run vanilla builds. Give us a few days to get coordinated/ and fine tune out builds since we all don't fly together at all.

Bring any spammed out consoled out team you can. Whatever gear. Give me 3 nukes and the pilots listed above, We will turn their hulls into heaps of burning rubble.

Have fun kill bad guys

-thrusters on full-

PS... I only say this because all of these players do this already. It would jut require obtaining weapons of less quality.

Edit: although split those guys into 2 teams and give 1 of them even 1 special toy... It would be skewed. An would come down to shot calling and game plan changes on the fly.
Why make it personal? Take 1 group w/vanilla vs 1 group w/o. Then make them switch. Repeat 25x for statistical significance. Or just acknowledge the obvious that power creep has gotten out of hand.

Do you honestly think 3 sci vestas 1 bug and a Tholian Sci for example wouldn't beat a team of 3 base Sci ships, 1 base cruiser and 1 base Tac? Not to mention the vestas et al team having access to purple doffs/romulan diplomacy consoles/reputation boosts and w/e other non base gear they want?
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 251
# 49
01-04-2013, 12:22 PM
As a player many think of me atleast as decent I hope, I fly a MVAM (c-store) 20dollar ship from 2011, its great but how hard I try I can never beat someone flying a decent piloted bugship maybe its me maybe its my lack of reputation stuff or my unwillingness to change to the latest tricobalt tricks but, I think that there are ships I don't mean all lockbox/new c-store ships that just outperforms my little triangle.. In the end Im quite happy with the ship I have I was thinking to get the new fleet Advanced escort and fly that for abit tho.


Truth is Bug ship is the best escort, it doesn't even in my book have a contender.

Then we have the Gurumba another ship I like turns like an old "fleet/patroll" escort with a free beam overload2, and I can't complain that ship have been one of my favorite ships to fly in the entire game.
Noone.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,132
# 50
01-04-2013, 02:40 PM
Oh, I'm not trying to make it personal dude. I'm just saying... There are many players out there that can pull it off no matter what ship they fly.
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