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Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,628
# 91
01-06-2013, 11:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by p2wsucks View Post
In addition to the KDF cruisers the KDF Vet ship is a nice option now, fyi. Unfortunately, they gave the Fleet B'rel a 4th Eng console instead of Sci console ...
ya, 4 eng consoles on the brel instead of a 4th sci was pants on head retarded. especially when we will surly see the kvort in a few months along with the ambassador. out of every bop like thing they could add, the kvort would be the bop deserving of a 4th eng


Quote:
Originally Posted by mavhax View Post
And how much of a difference does that give you over the full 15 second duration. You're looking at 6k at Crap Aux levels, versus, 15,000. To say nothing of the large resistance value difference between the two skills. That's a huge hit.

Unless you don't run Aux 2 batt. Then you suddenly get room for EPTS3
so do you run 125 aux at all times on your tac excel? and if so how do you have such a great SDR? or over caped weapons power? 15k isn't ever going to be the average heal of HE2 on what we are flying


Quote:
Originally Posted by mavhax View Post
Sure there are. Let's look at the Fleet Torkhat for example. Now, in order for it to be -effective- with DHCs it must run the Plas. Either Plas1 or 3. That means it no longer has access to run EPTS3. Or Extend 2, or ASIF2. It's other slot more than likely will also have to be a damage skill which means either a second plas, or DEM. This leaves it with LT and an Ens in order to shield tank effectively. Unless you're trying to run aux 2 batt, that means EPTS2, and 1. With likely EPTE1, or EPTA1 in the last slot.
He will also have to run CRF2, and CRF1. Leaving the Torkat with 2 ens and 1 lt power in tactical. And you're pretty much useless against anything with your turn rate, that has better inertia. (which is every Escort in the game and a good host of sci ships. Namely the Nova, Recon, and probably the Vesta) that's another big hit. Where as a beam boat, can burn them down and not have to worry about arcs nearly as much.
the fleet vorcha didn't need EWP or even a tractor beam to work, 3 turn consoles helped though. i preferred a TBR backed alpha on it myself back in the day. managed to get my first solo bug kill, of what i considered a skilled bug user, with such a tactic.

DDIS's fleet vorcha

i'd makes some changes now, AP doff recommendation especially, APO made it agile enough to duel escorts wile it was on, did it all the time. it had shield and hull heals so completely covered that it was extreamly hard to kill, wile hitting about 85% as hard as an escort could. 4 DHCs are a bit out of favor with me at the moment, proboly would recommend HY omega bombing in it too. never did i think to myself, gee, i simply cant get these DHCs pointed worth a damn in this slow thing, i was always able to easily. escort users are spoiled. with how devastating DEM3 can be on a full cannon alpha, id consider dropping AtS on it too.

what originally killed the fleet vorcha with me though is that a fleet ktinga, vorcha R or mirror vorcha with 2 AtB could do everything the fleet vorcha could do tactically, other then run APO, and have no shortage of eng skills. snared in plasma and a TB, and crit chance stacked sky high, the 4th tac console was hardly missed.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mavhax View Post
Also, you're vastly underestimating beam damage potential. I can -melt- people, premade v premade in the Old Excelsior (Thanks for the fleet mod to get the newer version by the way ) It also has access to the best spike in the game. Which on a Single Array, can hit for 90k, in the same situations that you -have- to have in order to even use Cannons (singles even) on a Cruiser. What's easier to heal through, a few 5k, to 11k crits or one big 18-90k single shot? I did that without even fully Decked weapons. (which I am working on. at least securing all the proper mods. Acc CrtDX2)

Beams on all but a tac captain yes are a joke. But we both know Eng damage is a complete farce anyway, even with DHCs to steroid him up, and Sci only does damage with DHCs because of Sub Nuke's power. Otherwise beams are -supposed- to be background damage. Also without that ''useless beam damage'' you'd -never- overcome SDR and HDR.

Sure an Escort is going to do 2x damage of a tac beam excelsior, if the excelsior can not effectively setup zone control. But said Escort has less than 1/2 of the effective support ability of the tac excels. And a much less capable setup for establishing zone control at the same time.

it was funny, when i first dueled macon with his 6 beam array and 15+pieces of npc spam sci/sci vesta, i was able to kill him in 10 seconds with just CRF2, APB1, APA and DEM3. not making that up ether. better prepared for how much damage i could do with just those buffs up, he was able to tank and bury me in spam and phaser procs, and subnukes when i needed RSP or finally had a GDF opening. grueling match that was. i switched to CSV and kept his spam managed and killed him with that once too i then switched to my beams and was not impressed, they didn't do better, even with BO3 every 15 seconds. if i had EWP instead of the near worthless for beam array DEM3, i proboly could have made it work a bit better, even aceton beam would have been more useful, but bringing EWP to a duel is a kinda dickish.

i know exactly how well beams can melt, and i myself have melted folks with them as well many many times. im not satisfied with their best, and they still don't gun folks down near as well as i can with singles. on most ships, with just the DEM3 damage if i don't breach shields, i can strip 25% of a ships hull with just a non GDF/tacfleet alpha. that gets healer, and my team mate's attention when they see someone suddenly have that kind of damage. with 3 flow cap consoles for glider, DEM3, CRF1 at global thanks to tech doffs, i can even make the falaxy more dangerous then most tac focused cruisers. even with its turn rate i find singles usable, especially when i bring EWP and TB. sure thats all such a galaxy R is good at, but again i favor lol over most other considerations.

then i jump on my klink and make all the beam array and single cannon melting look like the joke that it is. this is the key part, singles and beam arrays are damage dealing jokes even at their best. kdf cruisers point and laugh at it. thus i call for the very thoughtful buff to them, so when we go all out to make them deal damage, its closer to their kdf counterpart. less raw spike damage, but comparable damage because of on target up time, having a higher fireing arc but much less damage per volly. sci ships would be helped by this quite a bit too. most of the time their weapons damage is ether crappy or they don't bother trying to have any.

i do not judge the advantage/disadvantage ratio that DHC's have as equal to the advantage/disadvantage ratio the other weapon types have. i don't think any of the other weapons should deal as much damage as DHCs, its that their disadvantages (their weak damage) is to great compared to their advantage (fireing arc). this simply needs rebalancing. for perspective, beam arrays would just be as dangerous as they were when FAW was accurate, and you were the only one around to shoot at. i seriously doubt the changes i proposed would greatly upset the balance in game, or make this cruisers online, or make escorts unneeded or to squishy to chance taking into matches. they are so much more durable then ever, and so is everything else, so the spike only they can provide is more needed then ever. so, instead of doing any nerfing, just buff what has fallen behind.
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,465
# 92
01-06-2013, 01:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
ya, 4 eng consoles on the brel instead of a 4th sci was pants on head retarded. especially when we will surly see the kvort in a few months along with the ambassador. out of every bop like thing they could add, the kvort would be the bop deserving of a 4th eng

... Snip ...
Off topic, but I'd like to see what they would do w/the Fek (sp?) NPC BCing/phase Escort if they made that a KDF option. I've liked it from my PvE grinding.
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