Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 1 Suggestion: Dual Builds
01-03-2013, 05:35 PM
Dual Builds was a feature in City of Heroes/Villains that I always thought was really great. (Actualy it became 3 builds later on, but let's keep it simple for the time being).

Basically (in STO terms), it allowed you to have two full and separate skill builds.

You could then name your builds to keep track of them

When you wanted to respec, a respec would only work on one of the builds. You would have to swap builds to respec the other build using a separate respec.

Why would this be useful for STO?


1) Players would be able to have a team build and a solo build.

This might lead more players to take something like threat control for when they fly their Cruiser and then if they decided to swap to their Escort they could swap to their Escort DPS build with no threat control.

This in particular has always been a great boon for players that like to play support but end up having to solo a lot and thus don't specialize themselves for their support role.

2) Building off of #1, in the current game environment many players have more ships then they possibly have characters - two builds would allow them to customize for different ship types.

3) More players might spec for a specialized PvP (healer, DPS, etc.) build while keeping a more generalist build for PvE. Hopefully this might lead to less trepidation to hop into PvP.

4) Potential to lead to more respec sales. Now players have two different builds they may want to respec as needed.

Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 542
# 2
01-03-2013, 08:15 PM
You do realise Cryptic sell character slots, right? If you want more than one role/setup to choose from, you buy a new character. Cryptic aren't going to do anything to change that revenue stream any time soon.

Also, while the idea may have merit, how long do you think it would be before people started complaining along the lines of "why can't I have a tac and engineer on the same slot? I don't want 2 versions of the same character, and it's the same thing, a specialised build for specific circumstances???"?

Too many players of this game live under the "give an inch, take a mile" mentality. I assume you've seen the backlash because the FREE ship, which takes a few minutes a day to get (so probably only an hour or two in total) doesn't have a bridge? Or the people complaining that something in the rep store is overpowered in PvP despite it also being available for them to use?
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 3
01-03-2013, 08:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dma1986 View Post
You do realise Cryptic sell character slots, right? If you want more than one role/setup to choose from, you buy a new character. Cryptic aren't going to do anything to change that revenue stream any time soon.
Cryptic already shot themselves in the foot with selling character slots due to how the new Rep systems work.

We will continue to see further reasons to have a few characters instead of many.

Also, this would benefit me and I have 10 L50 characters.


Quote:
Originally Posted by dma1986 View Post
Also, while the idea may have merit, how long do you think it would be before people started complaining along the lines of "why can't I have a tac and engineer on the same slot? I don't want 2 versions of the same character, and it's the same thing, a specialised build for specific circumstances???"?
Who cares?

People like that will complain anyway, we still get Breen ships and lockboxes and a host of other things they continue to complain about.

The reason we continue to get those things anyway, is because you don't let people like that dictate what the rest of the playerbase should or should not have added as a QoL measure.

Community Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,004
# 4
01-04-2013, 08:19 AM
There's certainly room for Cryptic to consider doing something to help players optimize their skills for more than one kind of game play scenario or role.

I would think of it as something more like a Captain adapting his tactics in different situations rather than a separate skill tree.

Something like a "Dual Build" or "Multi-Specialization" would let players adapt to a couple of different roles without necessarily allowing them to become uber-characters who can do all things well.

This is different from having multiple characters, in that each character has to be leveled and geared up independently of each other. And that is a pain, no question about it.

The cons against having a Multi-Specialization skill system are added complexity and data storage. It might warrant a zen cost to unlock that feature (or free for Gold?).

Do we need it? Not really, although it would also make it easier for players to test things out in different scenarios and provide Cryptic with feedback. Certain testers ought to get rewarded by the Devs with free respecs.

What might work even better than dual builds for the rest of us is some kind of customizable "skill kit" that players can swap out to boost the effectiveness of their skills in different roles.
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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 985
# 5
01-04-2013, 09:04 AM
Multiple characters doesn't equate. Most of the good gear requires a substantial amount of investment into Fleet holdings or Reputation to even get, and is character bound on pickup. If they allowed Fleet/Rep gear to be account bound, that might be different, but I find that very unlikely to happen.

This would be helpful all around. There is some discouragement to try different types of ships if you build your skill tree around a particular one. Maybe you intended to run an all cannon setup, but you really want to try that Borg console, cutting beam and Omega torpedo set. Well, you didn't spec into torpedoes at all, so you take a penalty for doing that. It forces us all to try to be as generic as possible if we don't want to be forced to respec just to try something new.

And yes, one or two free "build slots" per character would be a great Gold member benefit.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 39
# 6
01-04-2013, 12:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ussultimatum View Post
Dual Builds was a feature in City of Heroes/Villains that I always thought was really great. (Actualy it became 3 builds later on, but let's keep it simple for the time being).
Here, lets keep it REAL simple. This was NOT a feature added while Cryptic had their claws in that game. It only became a feature after Cryptic got rid of CoH/CoV and No/"soon"-boy got out of it.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 96
# 7
01-04-2013, 12:43 PM
While I like dual spec in other games I don't think specs at all make much sense in STO.

You choose the type of play you're going to be involved in by choosing your ship, its weapons and what bridge officer layout you have. You then make the same choices but in a different UI when you spec. It's somewhat silly.

The idea of dual spec is that you can fill multiple roles with different sets of abilities and different gear. Well.... you already choose different abilities and different gear in STO, so I'm not seeing how specs at all add a whole lot to the gameplay. They just limit player freedom, which would make dual spec an improvement, but not actually a solution to the problem.

But of course it's easy enough to level characters than you can have a decently setup tank character, healer character dps character etc. Though still, it would be nice if tanking crusier captains had an easy way to hop into a fast manouvreable ship to do daily solo stuff at least.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 8
01-05-2013, 09:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sirsri View Post
While I like dual spec in other games I don't think specs at all make much sense in STO.

You choose the type of play you're going to be involved in by choosing your ship, its weapons and what bridge officer layout you have. You then make the same choices but in a different UI when you spec. It's somewhat silly.
The point is that 1 character can have multiple ships of different classes available to them.

Typically I see this very often with players that have both an Escort and a Cruiser for example. They don't take threat control because of when they hop in their escort - unfortunately that makes their cruiser a completely threat-less wonder.

Or as one poster said, speccing for all Energy and wanting to add torpedos later on as a new torpedo (such as the Rom Rep or OMEGA Rep torps) becomes available.

Some players will respec left and right, others will just do a bland and non-specialized generalist build.

The goal of this concept in particular is to add a bit more flexibility especially for support players - in particular Sci Captains, who have a ton of things they need to potentially specialize in just to swap BOFF powers.



You talk about swapping boffs to swap your abilities - sure that's easy for a Tac, now try that with a Sci captain who needs to cover the basics with Tac & Eng skills that are useful (and needed) for all ship types on top of their Sci skills, most of which only boost 1 type of effect (drains, or disable duration for example).

Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 9
01-05-2013, 09:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluegeek View Post
T
It might warrant a zen cost to unlock that feature (or free for Gold?)
That's an excellent idea.


Free for LTS & Gold (as long as remained subbed)

Zen Unlock for Free players.

Commander
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 278
# 10
01-05-2013, 02:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dma1986 View Post
You do realise Cryptic sell character slots, right? If you want more than one role/setup to choose from, you buy a new character. Cryptic aren't going to do anything to change that revenue stream any time soon.
So sell dual-build profiles as well, problem solved
Personally I'd definitely prefer this, as I'm not really interested at all in creating a new federation character as I never enjoyed the storyline missions enough for them to be more than a means to an end, and I don't want to go through hundreds of hours of grinding just to get to where I am already. This is why I was happy to see that since the last time I'd been on I had received a free respec due to some change or other, as it meant I could re-focus my skills for a new style of ship.

Cryptic could easily just combine this feature with respec points (ignoring free ones); basically you're paying either to get a new profile, or to respec an existing one.


I remember reading something somewhere about the possible future ability to play as one of your bridge officers as a character in their own right; this could be an interesting way of handling different skill profiles if they could each have a set of player skills (once you switch to them).
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