Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,020
# 101
01-05-2013, 01:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by centersolace View Post
Posts like this make me sad. Not only are they incredibly pessimistic, but it also shows a lack of understanding. The big thing these days is franchise and brand recognition. Almost everything made these days is a sequel, remake, reboot, re-imagining, or rehash.

Back in the 90's, companies realized that killing a franchise means killing millions, if not billions of dollars in profit. (RIP Rare)
Which didn't stop SOE from making bone-headed changes to Star Wars Galaxies and Matrix Online in order to make money - seriously, two of the hottest IPs of their time and they killed them stone dead.

The problem is that the execs feel that they can slap a logo on a rock and the fans will buy it up in their millions and the thing is, they do - we're our own worst enemies. I can't help but wonder what would have happened if the whole lockbox thing had backfired drastically - what if every attempt to Easternise STO had been rejected by the players?

PWE wouldn't have canned it - they'd invested too much money to do that - but they'd have been forced to rethink their strategy. Unfortunately that's not what happened - we embraced $250 per-character ships and everything that's happened to STO since then is a consequence.

PWE is going to continue to push its business model into STO because that's all they know - and because its made them a lot of money, but eventually the players will tire of it - and they won't protest, they won't argue on the forums - they'll just leave. I've never seen so much apathy for STO in the 3 years its been running.

Yes, many F2P'ers still love the game because you get so much for free - but all that free stuff was paid for with subscriptions and LTS money - if STO was purely what Cryptic's delivered since it went F2P we wouldn't be having this discussion because the game simply wouldn't exist any more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by centersolace View Post
I honestly think that PWE and Cryptic are doing everything they possibly can to keep this game alive, as it is making them lots of money, and they would be stupid to not continue to bring players in. We just tend to disagree with them a lot.
I think Cryptic is in an incredibly uncomfortable position where it wants to grow and evolve STO but every decision is tempered by 'how much will that cost us?' and 'how much will that make us?' - which is good business sense, but only up to a point - when I look at Season 7, I see it as the efforts of a team that's completely starved of development resources - quite simply, very little of the money going into STO seems to be reinvested in it.

Of course, that's just speculation - there's no facts and Cryptic wouldn't be any more candid about their situation now than they were under Atari's rule - all I have to go on is what's been said ('We're doing great! Expanding the team!') and what's been delivered: old content tied into a modified fleet starbase system and a big, empty open world with very little to do there.
Please join our peaceful protest to help make STO a better game
Proudly not contributing to PWE's bottom-line since October 2012

Last edited by weylandjuarez; 01-05-2013 at 01:30 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,060
# 102
01-05-2013, 03:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by weylandjuarez View Post
but all that free stuff was paid for with subscriptions and LTS money -
Actually, it's been paid for by the new owners and the F2Pers impulse spending on lock boxes and the like have been the ones helping them pay it back. If subs and LTS' were doing the job, the game would still be sub only.

Subs are just the easy reliable money. Like the old lady living in your slum apartment paying rent with her pension.
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Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 36
# 103 This
01-05-2013, 03:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by curs0r View Post
Despite the inflammatory wording of the title for this thread I will reply to it. I still have a number of concerns. Refining cap still at 8k, I'd like the dilithium back to at least half what it used to be for dismissing doffs, the exchange is still a catastrophe, and others. Nothing major though. The changes made post-launch to S7 showed what I think most really wanted to see; that the devs do in fact respond to feedback. None of this has brought back the vast majority of my wayward fleetmates that quit out of boredom. A few have popped in, but they see the grinds, and usually leave again fairly quickly. It would appear that it gives plenty to do for those of us that are here anyway, but does not do a lot to entice people into returning and staying.
Bump for this excellent post.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,825
# 104
01-05-2013, 04:56 PM
They do seem to be lacking two important parts of the development process lately.

- Vision: The doff system required a dev to have a vision and to stick with it. All it is, mechanically speaking, is a facebook game. But because of that dev's vision it became one of the best components of STO even if it is hardly integrated into new content other than as a different 'daily wrapper'. Yes New Romulus I'm looking at you. Although on the same token New Romulus is pretty snazzy.

- Development: They have been having a very hard time refining the vision into something that works well. In addition I really think they need someone at Cryptic who will do the following with nearly every single subject and that is to ask why.

Why are so many players having a hard time getting Omega Marks while another group is having a hard time getting Romulan Marks? And is that a good thing?

Why is the PvP bootcamp movement succeeding so well? Are we missing a huge opportunity with PvP or is it simply that we have a restless playerbase seeking greater challenge?

Why is Battleship Royal one of the most popular and highly rated Foundry Missions?

Why did we loose money on the last KDF ship?

Why do we have 'autofire' for weapons but not 'autodistribute' for shields? Are we making players who don't bother to manual edit keybinds (likely the majority) deal with frustration for no reason? What does this particular design decision add to the game?

Those are just a few off the top of my head but I could come up with many many more. And I have a feeling that some at Cryptic are 'assuming' they have the answers to those questions yet in reality do not.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 144
# 105
01-05-2013, 08:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by weylandjuarez View Post
PWE is going to continue to push its business model into STO because that's all they know - and because its made them a lot of money, but eventually the players will tire of it - and they won't protest, they won't argue on the forums - they'll just leave. I've never seen so much apathy for STO in the 3 years its been running.
Well it doesn't help at all that every time someone makes an "I'm leaving, and here's why" post, they just get razzed and belittled out the door for it. "I'm leaving" posts actually serve a very positive purpose in that they give Cryptic exactly the kind of necessary feedback you're talking about, but petty-minded forum goers can't seem to comprehend it as anything other than "whining".

If customers are prematurely leaving the shop, from a business POV that's a real problem. The ONLY real problem.

People on the forums like to think that expressing their reasons for leaving is stupid since they won't be around to see any benefit that might come of it. They assume there's no profit in it for Cryptic since any changes made on the basis of such feedback would only serve customers who aren't there at the expense of those who still are. This is petty, short sighted BS. If the reasons people give for leaving are relatively consistent, then that's a perfect indicator of what needs fixing to prevent loosing more customers. This isn't a restaurant: you don't want customer turnover, you want customers to stay, as many and for as long as possible. And improving the game isn't going to ruin it for the relatively thin film of dregs who'll never leave no matter what, it's going to make sure that your customer base grows and stays while retaining (and dare I say it, improving the experience of) those "lifers".

Furthermore, the complaints of "lifers" mean nothing next to the complaints of people who will actually leave the game. From a business perspective, nothing is broken so long as people still buy it, no matter how much they complain. Why should they do anything to sate the complaints of someone who will stick around regardless? The complaints of people who actually will/do leave are the only complaints that can ever actually matter.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,292
# 106
01-05-2013, 08:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by connectamabob View Post
Well it doesn't help at all that every time someone makes an "I'm leaving, and here's why" post, they just get razzed and belittled out the door for it. "I'm leaving" posts actually serve a very positive purpose in that they give Cryptic exactly the kind of necessary feedback you're talking about, but petty-minded forum goers can't seem to comprehend it as anything other than "whining".

If customers are prematurely leaving the shop, from a business POV that's a real problem. The ONLY real problem.

People on the forums like to think that expressing their reasons for leaving is stupid since they won't be around to see any benefit that might come of it. They assume there's no profit in it for Cryptic since any changes made on the basis of such feedback would only serve customers who aren't there at the expense of those who still are. This is petty, short sighted BS. If the reasons people give for leaving are relatively consistent, then that's a perfect indicator of what needs fixing to prevent loosing more customers. This isn't a restaurant: you don't want customer turnover, you want customers to stay, as many and for as long as possible. And improving the game isn't going to ruin it for the relatively thin film of dregs who'll never leave no matter what, it's going to make sure that your customer base grows and stays while retaining (and dare I say it, improving the experience of) those "lifers".

Furthermore, the complaints of "lifers" mean nothing next to the complaints of people who will actually leave the game. From a business perspective, nothing is broken so long as people still buy it, no matter how much they complain. Why should they do anything to sate the complaints of someone who will stick around regardless? The complaints of people who actually will/do leave are the only complaints that can ever actually matter.
There is a big problem with your post: "I'm leaving" threads are against the forum rules and will be proptly removed! You are not allowed to say your leaving even if you are giving reasons.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 9,522
# 107
01-05-2013, 09:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by born2bwild1 View Post
There is a big problem with your post: "I'm leaving" threads are against the forum rules and will be proptly removed! You are not allowed to say your leaving even if you are giving reasons.
The problem I have with this, is that in the players eyes they're going, "I'm out of here, now try to win me back". And while you might think that works, it doesn't. At all.

Look at it this way, if you're having a fight with your girlfriend (or boyfriend, or whatever, I wont judge) and you tell her/him/it that "This is it, we're done, I'm out of here" and you leave, they probably won't be taking you back any time soon.

And it don't matter how carefully, tactfully, and well written your critiques and complaints are. At that point, they're probably helping you haul your *** out the door.

Cryptic and PWE is not staffed by Vulcans. They are staffed by very emotional humans that get just as pissed when the coffee machine breaks as you do. When you tell them that they suck and you're out of here, they aren't going objectively look at your reasoning, they are going to tell you "Good riddance sucker".
HI HO, HI HO. OFF DUTY SLOT NEEDS TO GO!
"It's better to ask a dumb question, than to remain an idiot forever."
RIP Sensor Analysis
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 144
# 108
01-05-2013, 10:54 PM
That's no way to make money. Don't need to be a Vulcan, just a mature adult. Customers are not boyfriends/girlfriends, and something is VERY wrong if that level of emotion is being ascribed to what is merely a small-instance professional relationship.

If "I'm leaving" threads are banned by the forum TOS, then that's a(nother) sign that they don't really WANT to improve.

Again: leavers are what actually damages the game's/company's the bottom line, not complainers who stay. If they are so fragile that they can't even accept the very existence of leavers' complaints, then they (and the game) are doomed.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 891
# 109
01-05-2013, 10:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by connectamabob View Post
Well it doesn't help at all that every time someone makes an "I'm leaving, and here's why" post, they just get razzed and belittled out the door for it. "I'm leaving" posts actually serve a very positive purpose in that they give Cryptic exactly the kind of necessary feedback you're talking about, but petty-minded forum goers can't seem to comprehend it as anything other than "whining".
Send them an email. The forum isn't a place for it. "I quit" have one singular intent, to stir up the hornets nest. 99% of the time the person that posts doesn't quit at all, or is gone for only a short time. They are just attention grabs.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 144
# 110
01-05-2013, 11:04 PM
BFD. People say stuff to stir things up all the time. As a forum goer, it's just as much on you if you respond. It shouldn't matter where it's said, the actual merits of a complaint are gonna be the same regardless, so rest is just extraneous ballyhoo.

Also, it probably gives people catharsis. Being ignored by the devs on the forum prolly feels more like you did something than getting ignored by the devs via email. Sometimes people gotta vent whether they're leaving or not, and why shouldn't they if they're really that frustrated?
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