Lt. Commander
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 164
I know that tac consoles like the phaser relays have no diminishing returns but the neutroium alloy seems to have diminishing returns... What about shield generators? Can I stack 3 of them with no penalty. And is there is a penalty whats the %s on having 2 and then having 3 and 4?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 130
# 2
01-05-2013, 02:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by osirisraa View Post
I know that tac consoles like the phaser relays have no diminishing returns but the neutroium alloy seems to have diminishing returns... What about shield generators? Can I stack 3 of them with no penalty. And is there is a penalty whats the %s on having 2 and then having 3 and 4?
Only consoles that give resistance , Netronium for example, have a diminishing return.
No other consoles do.
This is not as good as it used to be...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 164
# 3
01-05-2013, 04:46 AM
thx!!!!!!!
Lieutenant
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 96
# 4
01-05-2013, 03:29 PM
Technically all consoles have diminishing returns, its just more obvious with hull plating.

Just an example, a console that adds 10% to base damage.
You have 100DPS and add this console.
You have 110DPS now. Add a second.
You have 120DPS which is only 8.3% return.

Common misconception that may have obstructed many people from properly equipping their ships.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,804
# 5
01-05-2013, 05:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by trahl View Post
Technically all consoles have diminishing returns, its just more obvious with hull plating.

Just an example, a console that adds 10% to base damage.
You have 100DPS and add this console.
You have 110DPS now. Add a second.
You have 120DPS which is only 8.3% return.

Common misconception that may have obstructed many people from properly equipping their ships.
Depends on how you define diminishing returns. Each tactical console in your example is adding 100 DPS and therefor many including myself would define that as 'no diminishing returns' otherwise you would have exponential scaling that gets stupid broken.

Armor consoles on the other hand have a true diminishing return. If the first console adds 20 points of resistance, the second will only add 18 points of resistance. Or to put it another way if the first adds 1,000 effective hit points, the second only adds 900 effective hit points. Which is also silly in my opinion but oh well.

And please do not look at the % reduction as that is a very...misleading number for most people.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 96
# 6
01-05-2013, 05:25 PM
I agree with you, I've just had diminishing returns used to describe the afformentioned situation which causes confusion over whether to stack consoles or not.
(the answer is do it, for our viewers out there)
Just to make sure the word doesn't scare people off
Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 460
# 7
01-05-2013, 10:14 PM
As I understand it, that's not how resistance works, the amount of damaged blocked is in relation to the damage dealt, not a set universal number. A high damage dealing Jem'hadar attack ship will still deal high damage compared to a low damage ship, but more points of damage will blocked as well. Hits for 1000 damage with you having 50 percent resistance will block 50 damage, while simple fighter that hits you for 50 damage will have you only blocking 25 damage.

Now what really boosts your hull regenerating rate and I believe that SIF Generators they do directly stack so if the math of resistance armour is bothering you, just go with SIF Generators.

Last edited by lordgyor; 01-05-2013 at 10:53 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,442
# 8
01-06-2013, 04:28 AM
Actually, most consoles such as tactical or science work by increasing skill points in a particular skill. Which do have diminishing returns at values above 99.

This is why there was such a problem with Particle Generators a while back because they increased exponentially instead and so a nerf was given. There was a whole thread about it.

Stacking tons of consoles of the same type doesn't grant you as much DPS as you would at first think looking at the numbers. But obviously it will continue to add to your DPS. The numbers are just more pronounced with armor consoles and so you notice it more.

To answer the OP: The effect of the field generators is cumulative not compound. i.e if you have two blue ones you will get a 35% increase in your original shield capacity. Not 17.5 % and then 17.5% on top of that, which is what a lot of people expect with regard not only this console but tactical ones as well.

Last edited by tc10b; 01-06-2013 at 05:26 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 955
# 9
01-06-2013, 05:27 PM
First a couple of explanations. All of the math that Cryptic uses for most of the game uses the basic form of BASE x [or / ] ( 1 + (buff1 + buff2 ... + buffN) / 100 ) ). Where buff# is a source of skill increase (i.e captain skills, ability affect, gear, etc). That form of math has a diminishing return or (or a curve which flattens out as your increase the buff# total.

So if you have a BuffN sum of say 150. Adding +20 won't increase your net value by that much. (20 x (1 + (150 / 100)) = 20 x (1 + 1.5) = 50. 20 x (1 + ( 150 + 20)/100)) = 20 x ( 1 +1.7 ) = 54 (which is a net increase of +4).

That is why weapon consoles do add as much as you would thing. The weapon damage foumula is as follows (via Geko in an interview).

Base weapon damage x ( 1 + <weapon-mk-modifier> + <ship-tier-modifier> + <weapon-training-skill>/100 + <X-weapons-skill>/100 + <consoles-total> / 100) + 0.015 x <# non-dmg-attribs> + 0.075*<# of DMG attribs).

The weapon MK and Ship Tier modifiers start at 0 and go up (MK X weapon is 1.0 and Tier 5 Ship mod is 1.0). (The above is from memory. The numbers may be off. )

And hull damage resistance uses a different, more complicated formula. See http://www.stowiki.org/Damage_resistance . The curve is one that approaches 75% by never reaches it.
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