Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,105
# 1 Emergency Power to Engines...
05-29-2013, 01:34 PM
I doubt anything will come of this thread, but I might as well try posting it here. Perhaps Borticus will see the feedback and consider making some sort of a change.

The huge buff to Emergency Power to Engines from the Legacy of Romulus is a major problem for science vessels. Any escort with two Lt. Engineering slots can run an auxiliary to battery build chaining Emergency Power to Shields I and Emergency Power to Engines I for a 100% uptime. With the new warp cores escorts can now run 125 weapons and 125 shields with no ill effect.

Prior to Legacy of Romulus, a Science vessel could significantly slow down an escort with Chroniton mines/torpedoes, beam target engines, tractor beam II, and Gravity Well III + duty officer proc. If timed right, the science vessel could hit the escort when Attack Pattern Omega was on global cooldown, or subnuke it off when the escort tried to use it.

Now with the RCS turn rate changes, warp cores, and specifically the Emergency Power to Engines change escorts can escape gravity well + tractor beam with ease. On top of that there is even a duty officer from the fleet support duty officer pack that boosts resistance to crowd control with EPtE. The RCS changes provided the highest benefit to escorts, and it's now virtually impossible for a science vessel to swing around to hit an escort with subnuke beam when they are using EPtE and/or APO assuming the pilot is competent. The escort impulse mod allows the ship class to run high impulse strafing runs, rebounding from 11km for another pass. And there is no way for a science vessel to catch them because escorts have a superior impulse mod. On top of all this, escorts now have crippling fire, which procs on all crits rather than just a chance to proc on crits.

To sum it up: Science vessels can't slow escorts with tractor beam because of attack pattern omega immunity, gravity well is useless now because of the new Emergency Power to Engines, subnuke is harder to use because the escort can just run strafing runs behind them/insanely high boosts from RCS in turn rate, hitting the escort with subsystem targetting is now more difficult because crippling fire destroys accuracy. Even if subsystem targeting does land, it has a minimal effect because it is decreased by power insulators to the point where EPtX negates the brunt of the blow.

Legacy of Romulus brought a lot of power creep, but what it did to escorts is over the top. Science vessels lost sensor analysis when Cryptic rolled out the Tier IV Romulan Placate proc and now they lost crowd control with EPtE. There may be another underlying issue here that I am not seeing, but the only way I can see fixing this would be a nerf on Emergency Power to Engines to more reasonable level.

Last edited by majortiraomega; 05-29-2013 at 01:38 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,968
# 2
05-29-2013, 02:01 PM
RCS changes actually favor cruisers and science ships more than escorts but yes do provide a boost, not like the bug ship needs it. I do agree that the constant uptime of the speed boost is a bit much especially when that boost alone can get you out of a tractor beam without APO which a good escort will cycle anyway.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 4,742
# 3
05-29-2013, 02:07 PM
If your going to complain about escorts... perhaps you should figure out what the real issue is.

EPTE isn't the issue... Omega being up 50% of the time thanks to badly designed doffs would be the only possible issue you can point to there.

Frankly Put a RCS unit on your Science ship and you should be able to turn much better then before.

100% uptime one EPTX... isn't in general done with tech doffs on an escort.. Really tech doffs and aux to bat on an escort is pretty major fail. You can achieve 100% uptime with DMG control doffs... however you can do that as well to perhaps ... keep your own EPTS and say EPTW up 100% of the time. If you don't like or use lots of Energy weps you could run EPTA instead, cloak sight bug not withstanding it will give a good boost to any dmg sci skills your running.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 17,516
# 4
05-29-2013, 02:30 PM
Folks mentioned during the beta that EPtE worked better than certain other abilities in regard to escaping certain things...simply a case that wham/bam/thank you ma'am and you were out of range with it. Thus, you could drop certain abilities and save other abilities for other things instead...

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Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 414
# 5
05-29-2013, 04:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by edalgo View Post
RCS changes actually favor cruisers and science ships more than escorts
How do you figure that?

RCS consoles still multiply off your base turn, they just removed the -3 from the math. Higher base turn ships still get more of a boost than lower turn rate ships.

Last edited by cha0s1428; 05-29-2013 at 04:31 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 677
# 6
05-29-2013, 05:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by majortiraomega View Post
I doubt anything will come of this thread, but I might as well try posting it here. Perhaps Borticus will see the feedback and consider making some sort of a change.

The huge buff to Emergency Power to Engines from the Legacy of Romulus is a major problem for science vessels. Any escort with two Lt. Engineering slots can run an auxiliary to battery build chaining Emergency Power to Shields I and Emergency Power to Engines I for a 100% uptime. With the new warp cores escorts can now run 125 weapons and 125 shields with no ill effect.

Prior to Legacy of Romulus, a Science vessel could significantly slow down an escort with Chroniton mines/torpedoes, beam target engines, tractor beam II, and Gravity Well III + duty officer proc. If timed right, the science vessel could hit the escort when Attack Pattern Omega was on global cooldown, or subnuke it off when the escort tried to use it.

Now with the RCS turn rate changes, warp cores, and specifically the Emergency Power to Engines change escorts can escape gravity well + tractor beam with ease. On top of that there is even a duty officer from the fleet support duty officer pack that boosts resistance to crowd control with EPtE. The RCS changes provided the highest benefit to escorts, and it's now virtually impossible for a science vessel to swing around to hit an escort with subnuke beam when they are using EPtE and/or APO assuming the pilot is competent. The escort impulse mod allows the ship class to run high impulse strafing runs, rebounding from 11km for another pass. And there is no way for a science vessel to catch them because escorts have a superior impulse mod. On top of all this, escorts now have crippling fire, which procs on all crits rather than just a chance to proc on crits.

To sum it up: Science vessels can't slow escorts with tractor beam because of attack pattern omega immunity, gravity well is useless now because of the new Emergency Power to Engines, subnuke is harder to use because the escort can just run strafing runs behind them/insanely high boosts from RCS in turn rate, hitting the escort with subsystem targetting is now more difficult because crippling fire destroys accuracy. Even if subsystem targeting does land, it has a minimal effect because it is decreased by power insulators to the point where EPtX negates the brunt of the blow.

Legacy of Romulus brought a lot of power creep, but what it did to escorts is over the top. Science vessels lost sensor analysis when Cryptic rolled out the Tier IV Romulan Placate proc and now they lost crowd control with EPtE. There may be another underlying issue here that I am not seeing, but the only way I can see fixing this would be a nerf on Emergency Power to Engines to more reasonable level.
Its called full Graviton spec + full aux. Enough TB strength right there.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 109
# 7
05-30-2013, 07:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkfader1988 View Post
Its called full Graviton spec + full aux. Enough TB strength right there.
LOL EPTE QQ space must be really effed up to invoke epte QQ!

And to the poster above who really bothers to ever put points in grav gens to spec a tractor beam? I can't see it happening since the escort will evasive out with epte apparently now when his apo is on cd. At the very most perhaps that sci ship should carry 3 mk 12 purple grav gen consoles as an option. That's your 9 in grav gens skill almost. God knows they must be dirt cheap!

Last edited by johnharrisonlol; 05-30-2013 at 07:09 AM.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,845
# 8
05-30-2013, 07:38 AM
So just how many double LT engie escorts exist?
Seems that Cruisers could really do this well, as well.
Leonard Nimoy, Spock.....

R.I.P
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 677
# 9
05-30-2013, 07:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnharrisonlol View Post
LOL EPTE QQ space must be really effed up to invoke epte QQ!

And to the poster above who really bothers to ever put points in grav gens to spec a tractor beam? I can't see it happening since the escort will evasive out with epte apparently now when his apo is on cd. At the very most perhaps that sci ship should carry 3 mk 12 purple grav gen consoles as an option. That's your 9 in grav gens skill almost. God knows they must be dirt cheap!
You were always able to evasive out of tractor beams before as well, so I dont see why EptE is such a gamebreaker for it. Not saying TB could get a bit of a buff, but oh well.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 109
# 10
05-30-2013, 07:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemepwe View Post
So just how many double LT engie escorts exist?
Seems that Cruisers could really do this well, as well.
I am thinking bop with this setup Just imagine a bug ship with aux2damp apo1 and epte1 Omega engines 9 in all relevant skills helmsman for extra turn and 35 second evasive

Last edited by johnharrisonlol; 05-30-2013 at 07:52 AM.
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