Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,515
# 1 Remove defense from the game.
01-08-2013, 10:27 AM
Seriously it is far to strong. It plays out as an avoidance stat. That type of mechanic plays wonderfully with all the other mitigation stats. It is very unpredictable as to how much damge it will save a player from.

Before you think that that isn't true, consider that avoidance doesn't take into account the magnitude of the incoming attack. You avoid it you avoid it. Avoid a BO3 60k hit is equal to avoiding a turret's autofire as far as the stat is concerened. Resistances are a known factor we know exactly how much damage they will save us from.

The downside is the way defense plays into cruiser stats. Its way to low. There is no logical reason for this. None. Simply consider that defense decreases an attackers ability to hit a ship effectively and not "at all". Currently defense mechanic is an avoidance mechanic, it shows up as a miss after all. Some silly notion of 'speed tanking'. Oh okay, sure. The guys that can pilot a ship across the quadrant can't track another ship that's RIGHT THERE strictly becuase it's fast? Be serious.

There must be something else involved. Like electronic countermeasures, better shielding, stronger hulls, all sorts of "baked in" methods to assure that a ship isn't instantly locked on and vaporized.

But only for Escorts. The only way to gain defense is via tactical abilities. Please don't count evasion. Sure it's there. Yah you can doff it. Still Cruisers and Scis can't compete in the defense department with Escorts, yet Escorts can compete easily in resistances and heals.

Acc alone will never overcome Def. Def is way to high. There are methods to reduce a targets Def but the BEST ways to counter those methods reside squarely in the tactical domain and ALL the counters are available to Tac. And Def starts far to low for Cruisers and Sci considering they have no real ability to raise it.

At the least consider adding plus defense consoles for eng and sci. Construe them as electronic countermeasure or armor bracing consoles, but make them available. Have the ALSO reduce the chance to be critically hit. Is it reasonable that a dinky little ship can crit a cruiser out of existence in moments? Not so much.

Escorts need to have thier chance to be critically hit INCREASED. It seems pretty reasonable that you may miss an escort, but it seems equally reasonable that if you did, you'd hit something vital and not one of the five million holodecks, bars, lounges, crew quarters, cargo holds that a cruiser might feature.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NINTlwpVAz8

More pics of stuff happening that likely shouldn't. It can happen to anyone, and it does. All the live long day.

Cheers happy flying, and to my cruiser and Sci ships brothers I hope they increase your def one way or the other!!
If I don't respond to posts on this forum don't be offended. I don't sub or follow any of them.

Last edited by thissler; 01-08-2013 at 10:30 AM. Reason: made a boo boo!
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,929
# 2
01-08-2013, 10:36 AM
Well as far as cruisers having many more areas that are not vital... thats sort of silly, we are talking about tin cans in space. I doubt there would be much that was not vital after it had a hole shot through it.

Anyway I think you forget why defense was added... can we argue that some ships get to much of it... yes perhaps we can, however the mechanic is good... and I for one sure as heck wouldn't want to go back to cruisers online... where no one flies escorts cause they pop 4s after getting into range of another player.

Perhaps the mechanic needs a slight tuning where Misses simply don't ever happen any more... and instead we replace it with a Glancing blow. Where defense reduces the dmg by X amount.... The fact that we are missing with weapons designed 400 years in our future when we can put a bomb down a bunkers blow hole today does seem pretty preposterous anyway.
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 891
# 3
01-08-2013, 10:39 AM
Aren't you the same guy that has numerous videos of you mauling escorts within a handful of seconds.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,712
# 4
01-08-2013, 10:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thissler View Post
Seriously it is far to strong. It plays out as an avoidance stat. That type of mechanic plays wonderfully with all the other mitigation stats. It is very unpredictable as to how much damge it will save a player from.

Before you think that that isn't true, consider that avoidance doesn't take into account the magnitude of the incoming attack. You avoid it you avoid it. Avoid a BO3 60k hit is equal to avoiding a turret's autofire as far as the stat is concerened. Resistances are a known factor we know exactly how much damage they will save us from.
<snip>
It's supposed to NOT "take into account the magnitude of the incoming attack". What difference does it make if you dodge some guy throwing a ball at you- be it a tennis ball or bowling ball you still managed to NOT GET HIT.
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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 275
# 5
01-08-2013, 10:50 AM
i dont miss often unless the guy is using attack patterns that are what made to help them evade shots like hmm evasive maneuvers in the shows... If you don't want to miss often get acc weapons and speck your cpt for accuracy also put accuracy as a trait. You have 2 choices hit hard when you do hit or miss less. Also there are abilities that help reduce a targets defense like target engines gravwell tractorbeam power drain ect use them some weapons to so read up and use them if you cant seam to hit crap.

And no escort can compete with a sci/cruiser in resistance/defense if your cruiser is as squishy as a escort you are doing it wrong...
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,965
# 6
01-08-2013, 10:53 AM
first of all, a HY omega dealing 8k damage? wow. thats how much they deal for me hitting shields. never less then 17k on hull, up to 50K or more when i use it. might not always kill outright, but its close enough, CRF2 will finish the job. that had to be a 0 in projectile skill, HY1 anti speced torp. like, that person must not have speced into weapon proficiency even.


about alpha striking in general, sometimes its just not going to kill. sure it works great for lone targets in a C&H, but in an arena the hectic cross healing environment leaves much less opportunities. focus firing, and firing for pressure are plenty important, especially when its all you can do at the time.

i agree about defense score, these ships have computer cores with a subspace fields so they can process faster then should be physically possible, faster then the speed of light, LOL @ missing a target. defense score would be much more about your ship generating sensor interference, not how fast your moving, but maybe of how big you are. you fool their sensors into thinking you are were your not, then they miss, that should be what acc/defense score should be about.
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,395
# 7
01-08-2013, 10:56 AM
This seems like a bit of a personal bug bear. If you roll BO you just have to accept that a lot of the time it's gonna shoot off into space (reminds me of that Newton speech from Mass Effect 2). We just have timing and awareness to try and mitigate that miss chance.

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[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 270
# 8
01-08-2013, 10:56 AM
Lately it seems like a good idea to either reduce defense gained from flight speed or lower the defense cap. It would basically be a slight nerf to escort speed tanking without affecting larger ships too much and still letting escorts keep their leet deeps.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,466
# 9
01-08-2013, 10:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by antoniosalieri View Post
Perhaps the mechanic needs a slight tuning where Misses simply don't ever happen any more... and instead we replace it with a Glancing blow. Where defense reduces the dmg by X amount.... The fact that we are missing with weapons designed 400 years in our future when we can put a bomb down a bunkers blow hole today does seem pretty preposterous anyway.
Why not add in said glance mechanic (or something similar) for non-escorts? Give Scis (to a lesser degree) and Cruisers another layer of passive defenses to make up for the fact that they have such a significantly lower avoidance stat.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,395
# 10
01-08-2013, 10:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
i agree about defense score, these ships have computer cores with a subspace fields so they can process faster then should be physically possible, faster then the speed of light, LOL @ missing a target. defense score would be much more about your ship generating sensor interference, not how fast your moving, but maybe of how big you are. you fool their sensors into thinking you are were your not, then they miss, that should be what acc/defense score should be about.
I always kinda liked the fluff text on the Aegis (set? shield? I forget) where it said how you were using sensor residual images to fool targeting computers, and hence extra Def score. It does make a bit more sense than someone simply saying "attack pattern Riker" to go really fast or whatever.

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[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
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