Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 270
# 11
01-08-2013, 10:58 AM
most of the ships in your video are not defending them selves and are not moving... i would like to see you try this vs my cruiser builds either you will go boom or have to retreat! I actually know how to defend.

I still do get killed by attacks like this but it is rare and usually when i am getting ganked or someone gets a lucky shield prock!
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,397
# 12
01-08-2013, 11:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordmalak1 View Post
It's supposed to NOT "take into account the magnitude of the incoming attack". What difference does it make if you dodge some guy throwing a ball at you- be it a tennis ball or bowling ball you still managed to NOT GET HIT.
The difference is from a game design standpoint you can't manage how much damage will be avoided. Could be a little, could be a lot.

I'm really not sure what your point here is.

Yes xantris, I am that guy. If by handful of seconds you mean "two".


And Antonio, no it isn't silly. You seem found of nautical comparisons. Go compare a Dread to a Corvette and see what one is most likely to take critical damage from capital ship fire. I'm not here to get into a debate on interior life support force fields etc. I'm here to point out that its fairly clear massive ships are massive, and clearly could take more damage before, or would be less likely to be, critically hit. And no I didn't forget why it's in the game, nor is that important to my actual arguement. And yes the entire 'miss' concept seems silly when u look at it that way. The interplay between damage recieved via the defense/critical hit system is way out of proportion in favor of escorts.

No ones even answered the fact that Escorts have FAR greater defensive options than any other ship. Seriously.
If I don't respond to posts on this forum don't be offended. I don't sub or follow any of them.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,228
# 13
01-08-2013, 11:04 AM
This sounds like a good idea to be honest.

It would balance out the careers somewhat allowing all to serve an equally important role. Escorts could continue to perform their offensive role, but be somewhat more dependent on team support to shine instead of them being run-away freight trains in ever match.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,764
# 14
01-08-2013, 11:07 AM
[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by antoniosalieri View Post
Well as far as cruisers having many more areas that are not vital... thats sort of silly, we are talking about tin cans in space. I doubt there would be much that was not vital after it had a hole shot through it.
Its a standard design concept to have non-vital areas spread out as a sort of "poor mans ablative defense" to incomming fire over vital areas like CnC,the armory, etc in the belief that such areas while damaged will not restrict the vessel or vehicle from its primary purpose on the field of battle.

Unfortunately Goverments being what tghey are this doesn't always happen when a vehicle is designed in real life, but the concept is still sound.

just a nit-pic on my part, carry on.
Richard Hamilton (1975-2014)
goodbye good friend. We will see you in the DMZ in the sky oneday, save a shot for us.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,397
# 15
01-08-2013, 11:07 AM
[quote=omgrandalthor;7398951]most of the ships in your video are not defending them selves and are not moving... i would like to see you try this vs my cruiser builds either you will go boom or have to retreat! I actually know how to defend.

Wow now THERE's one I've never heard before. Please feel free to leave the names of your favorite FED ships in this thread, so I'll know to run away if I see them.
If I don't respond to posts on this forum don't be offended. I don't sub or follow any of them.

Last edited by thissler; 01-08-2013 at 11:12 AM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,397
# 16
01-08-2013, 11:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shimmerless View Post
This seems like a bit of a personal bug bear. If you roll BO you just have to accept that a lot of the time it's gonna shoot off into space (reminds me of that Newton speech from Mass Effect 2). We just have timing and awareness to try and mitigate that miss chance.
I'm not sure where you're going with this. Who is having a problem with Beam Overload?
If I don't respond to posts on this forum don't be offended. I don't sub or follow any of them.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,395
# 17
01-08-2013, 11:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thissler View Post
No ones even answered the fact that Escorts have FAR greater defensive options than any other ship. Seriously.
Well, yes... it's because (on paper) snoozers have higher defensive (Eng and Sci) stations, plus more of them.

Even then, the only real advantages escorts have is a small innate boost and the ability to slot AP:O. Without AP DOffs a 'scort has a huge window of vulnerability, visually it may look fast but its score is not really much higher than that of any other ship once AP:O isn't running.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thissler View Post
I'm not sure where you're going with this. Who is having a problem with Beam Overload?
To be honest I'm not sure where you're going with this... at first I thought you were having issues with BO (what with the BoP sig and everything) but at the same time you seem to be arguing that snoozers/non-scorts are at a disadvantage. I mean, again, the only skill that's notorious for missing is BO. Unless your target's defensively buffed to the walls you shouldn't have much of a problem hitting him with anything else.

vids and guides and stuff

[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples

Last edited by shimmerless; 01-08-2013 at 11:18 AM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,397
# 18
01-08-2013, 11:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by omgrandalthor View Post
i dont miss often unless the guy is using attack patterns that are what made to help them evade shots like hmm evasive maneuvers in the shows... If you don't want to miss often get acc weapons and speck your cpt for accuracy also put accuracy as a trait. You have 2 choices hit hard when you do hit or miss less. Also there are abilities that help reduce a targets defense like target engines gravwell tractorbeam power drain ect use them some weapons to so read up and use them if you cant seam to hit crap.

And no escort can compete with a sci/cruiser in resistance/defense if your cruiser is as squishy as a escort you are doing it wrong...
You do know that resistance/defense are two different stats do you not? And you understand that a cruiser just plain can't have nearly as much defense as an escort can right? And that escorts are only marginally less effective in gaining resistance? I'm not sure what you don't get here.

No ships have as much defense as escorts. It's an avoidance stat and as such is very problematic for game balance as you can't dictate the damage that is avoided as implemented in STO. Period. And on the other end of it, you're crit to death and you die. Period. Seems fishy to me.
If I don't respond to posts on this forum don't be offended. I don't sub or follow any of them.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,764
# 19
01-08-2013, 11:21 AM
I was under the Belief that, all other extra factors aside like Traits, skills, BOff abilities and Equipment, the maximum Bonus Defense for Cruiser and Science vessels was 60% and the Escort class had a maximum of 70%.

Add in all the extra's like +10% from Elusive, +10% from Aegis and what ever skilling gives you, is when Bonus defense gets tricky.

At the base of it all though is just a 10% difference between Cruiser/Science and Escorts.

Possibly the issue is that Bonus Defense can go too high? I do know that some rather crazy numbers can be achieved.
Richard Hamilton (1975-2014)
goodbye good friend. We will see you in the DMZ in the sky oneday, save a shot for us.

Last edited by bitemepwe; 01-08-2013 at 11:22 AM. Reason: I can hit 94.8% BD for nearly 20 seconds in my Peg'Hu, for example.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,465
# 20
01-08-2013, 11:26 AM
Build a Vesta/Armitage the right way and you can break 120-130% defense.
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