Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,828
# 11
01-10-2013, 09:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by errab View Post
Actually it's 1000 Dilithium every 2 days.
Which equals 500 Extra A Day...

Math Class... always reduce your fractions to the lowest common denominator.
...... DaveyNY ...STO Forum Member since February - 2009
..............Star Trek Fan since Thursday Sept. 8th, 1966
There are No Longer any STO Veterans... We're Just People who have Played the Game for the last 4 years.
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Community Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,657
# 12
01-10-2013, 09:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by daveyny View Post
I'm a LTS and I just bought $20 of ZEN yesterday...

But I don't dabble in the Dilithium Market, so where it stands has nothing to do with my purchases.

I use my stipend plus a bit of cash occasionally to buy Keys and extra items for my toon alts.

Taking a stand is great, but don't assume that in this particular case it will really effect what Cryptic does or doesn't do.

There are far more folks like me around.
Sometimes people seem to forget that the game wasn't made F2P to reduce profits, but to increase them. The rule of thumb with successful F2P games is that 90% of the players spend nothing or nearly nothing, and the other 10% make up for it. Those folks are averaging a lot more than $15 a month on average or the math wouldn't work out. Since there were many people spending more than that BEFORE the change, and now they have many more things they can advance their game by buying (Dilithium counts), it stands to reason there's still a lot folks spending a lot of money. I definitely averaged more than $15 a month last year, although that was split between here and CO.

I average more than that now, again split, although I don't know what I'll be spending in three months.
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Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 74
# 13
01-10-2013, 09:29 AM
It's a player driven economy! People you can actually PLAY the GAME to get Dilithium! Cry babies
One of the 0.7%ers Markus Urelious 12000+ Accolades [Fed Tac VA] Viper [Fed Tac VA] Athena [Fed Eng VA] T'ozz [KDF Tac LG]
Forum Member Since Feb 2010

Last edited by markparsons2012; 01-10-2013 at 09:33 AM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,828
# 14
01-10-2013, 09:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sirsri View Post
This statement is false. You (cryptic) set the supply and create demand for it, and you can (secretly or overtly) engage in active monetary policy by pumping zen or dil into the system, or taking them out, including fixing the trivial investigate officer reports daily which seriously impacted the market.

The exchange is player driven within the confines of the monetary (i.e. game design) regime set by Cryptic and adjusted as you see fit. If you increased (or decreased) dil costs for fleet projects or items by a factor of 2 without changing the rate of earning dil that would effect the dil-zen market. So '100% player driven' is not true, players don't control the dil prices for the dilithium sinks in the game, nor do they control the number of zen items in the store, their price, or desirability etc.


I'm not saying the exchange is bad. To claim it is 100% player driven is false however.
External Factors will always effect a Market... that's kinda-sorta a given.
...... DaveyNY ...STO Forum Member since February - 2009
..............Star Trek Fan since Thursday Sept. 8th, 1966
There are No Longer any STO Veterans... We're Just People who have Played the Game for the last 4 years.
I Really Do Miss the little TOP Button at the bottom of the threads.
Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 307
# 15
01-10-2013, 09:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sirsri View Post
This statement is false. You (cryptic) set the supply and create demand for it, and you can (secretly or overtly) engage in active monetary policy by pumping zen or dil into the system, or taking them out, including fixing the trivial investigate officer reports daily which seriously impacted the market.

The exchange is player driven within the confines of the monetary (i.e. game design) regime set by Cryptic and adjusted as you see fit. If you increased (or decreased) dil costs for fleet projects or items by a factor of 2 without changing the rate of earning dil that would effect the dil-zen market. So '100% player driven' is not true, players don't control the dil prices for the dilithium sinks in the game, nor do they control the number of zen items in the store, their price, or desirability etc.


I'm not saying the exchange is bad. To claim it is 100% player driven is false however.
That's quite the diss.
You're right, tho.
Former PWE Community Team Lead
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 9,046
# 16
01-10-2013, 09:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lolimpicard View Post
That's quite the diss.
You're right, tho.
Nah, it's not a diss. But in the context of the OPs point about "the Dilth Econ [is] being ran by greedy over the top business execs" that I'm replying to, I feel I am correct -- it's being run by greedy players . Players set the price they are willing to trade for, and as it's been said many times, by many Devs, we do not manipulate the exchange. Sure, a new Item purchasable by ZEN or Dilithium will cause the market to fluctuate. Also, Dilithium has never been more accessible than it has been now, yet the market is still on the lower side. This is due to the buy and sell orders that players, not Devs, want to make.

Cheers,

Brandon =/\=
Brandon "BranFlakes" Felczer | Former Community Team Lead for Perfect World Entertainment

Last edited by pwebranflakes; 01-10-2013 at 09:55 AM.
Community Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,657
# 17
01-10-2013, 09:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pwebranflakes View Post
Also, Dilithium has never been more accessible than it has been now, yet the market is still on the lower side. This is due to the buy and sell orders that players, not Devs, want to make.
Yes, but players have the desire to buy and sell in these patterns due to the decisions PWE makes, to whit: there are currently a tremendous number of things in player and fleet advancement that require Dilithium, and not many new things to spend Zen on. Yes, there's more Dil than ever; but the need for it has increased far beyond that.
Volunteer Community Moderator for the Star Trek Online Forums. My views do not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment.
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Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 314
# 18
01-10-2013, 10:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pwebranflakes View Post
Nah, it's not a diss. But in the context of the OPs point about "the Dilth Econ [is] being ran by greedy over the top business execs" that I'm replying to, I feel I am correct -- it's being run by greedy players . Players set the price they are willing to trade for, and as it's been said many times, by many Devs, we do not manipulate the exchange. Sure, a new Item purchasable by ZEN or Dilithium will cause the market to fluctuate. Also, Dilithium has never been more accessible than it has been now, yet the market is still on the lower side. This is due to the buy and sell orders that players, not Devs, want to make.

Cheers,

Brandon =/\=
This is true. For those who sell dilthium for zen, the market is booming. It wasn't all that long ago that it was just the opposite.

Ebb and flow is inevitable. Whichever side is on the low end of the teeter-totter at the moment will be unhappy; the other side will think everything is fine.
Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 307
# 19
01-10-2013, 10:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pwebranflakes View Post
Nah, it's not a diss. But in the context of the OPs point about "the Dilth Econ [is] being ran by greedy over the top business execs" that I'm replying to, I feel I am correct -- it's being run by greedy players . Players set the price they are willing to trade for, and as it's been said many times, by many Devs, we do not manipulate the exchange. Sure, a new Item purchasable by ZEN or Dilithium will cause the market to fluctuate. Also, Dilithium has never been more accessible than it has been now, yet the market is still on the lower side. This is due to the buy and sell orders that players, not Devs, want to make.

Cheers,

Brandon =/\=
Wasn't trying to say he was rude or hostile, rather that his argument was brutally on point.

We're arguing semantics now.

I trust the offers on the dil exchange are 100% player made, but Cryptics influence on dilithium demand (and consequently value/price) cannot be questioned.
The same is true with the demand for Zen, of course, and the supply side of dilithium has historically changed very little on Cryptics part.

I declare a tie.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,703
# 20
01-10-2013, 10:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by syberghost View Post
Yes, but players have the desire to buy and sell in these patterns due to the decisions PWE makes, to whit: there are currently a tremendous number of things in player and fleet advancement that require Dilithium, and not many new things to spend Zen on. Yes, there's more Dil than ever; but the need for it has increased far beyond that.
Plus there's the 8000 Dilithium a day (8500 if you're a Vet; and use the NPC Refinement Doff assignment regularly.) At this point, on my main without even trying hard I have a constant backlog (40 K) of Dilithium I'll never be able to refine unless I take a little under a week of entirely from playing STO.

Yes - Dilithium Ore is indeed more plentiful and easy to get; but there's so much more in game that take refined Dilithium (and nothing really new in the Zen based C-Store); that Zen will be a less valued commodity in STO for some time tio come, unless there's some sort of C-Store item explosion coming soon with items the players actually want.

Hell, even the lockbox ship reward spam is way down, (meaning not many master keys being sold/used); so, either STO real-income for Cryptic/PWE is down atm; OR they're making a mint off players who aren't concerned with playing the STO in game market per se; and buying Zen and converting it into refined Dilithium at a breakneck pace for Starbases or other items from the in-game Dilithium stores and/or the new Reputation system.

(BTW - even with Dilithium Ore so plentiful, I STILL need to ask why NONE of the main game Story arc episode content gives some small reward for playing it. IMO it's now a vicious cycle, as I'm sure data-mining shows not many players play the STO episode content all the way though, BUT, I'm 100% certain that's because there's ZERO dilithium to be had for doing so, and dilithium acquisition has become one of the main things to do to progress in STO and get the really good endgame gear.

I think that said, because I still like a lot of the episode content in the game and would like to see more; but because of the system in place; I don't think we'll see a lot of new episodic content, just more repeatable grind/PVE queue ciontent that doesn't add much to the story in STO (IMO).

I really do think it's time; and you guys ALSO add a small Dilithium Ore reward to your episodic story mission content [and believe it should have been that way since DAY ONE of the F2P conversion] - how can you still call Dilithium STO's 'time-based currency' and a reward for time spent doing content in game when a BIG PORTION [and it was the main portion at STO launch, and something the KDF faction still needs more of] of your prime in game content reward NO Dilithium Ore at all?)
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