Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,389
# 31
01-10-2013, 11:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lolimpicard View Post
He wasn't speaking in first person.

Regarding the futility part. Everything is; especially resistance.
Lol.... I did not see that one comming but I should have!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 118
# 32
01-10-2013, 11:06 AM
Crying in the wind. In game market changes just like the market in the real world change.

There was a time I was buying dilithium at one price only to sell the same amount of dilithium off again at a higher price to make zen. Now it is reversed. You sell dilithium for a high amount of zen and you dont buy dilithium cause its worth more than a zen point is now.

People will complain all the time and the owner of my fleet complains that the dilithium values have crashed. I tell her that it depends on which side of the fence your on, in my eyes the dilithium value went up seeing as I had a backlog of close to 400k dilithium that I proceded to sell all of it over time at between 85:1 to 90:1 dil:zen rate. I was able to buy quite a bit of service unlocks and suppliment the purchase of two starships doing this. That is a up side for me but a down side for those buying Dilithium.

While I ran my dilithium bank dry Ive been refining the max dilithium, 8,000 a day and I am constantly increasing my dilithium ore reserves and not making a dent in it. So forgive me if I dont feel sorry for those that are complaining about how they are not able to buy as much dilithium with zen as they used to. I was tired of selling of large sums of dilithium that took me a long time to refine just to get a few zen points to suppliment my zen bank roll to purchase something. I think with how hard refined dilithium is to get and how easy it is to buy Zen I think the current rate of less than 100:1 is fair and reasonable for the amount of effort put in for getting the dilithium vs the effort put in to get the Zen.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,679
# 33
01-10-2013, 11:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinru821 View Post
The players are the ones ruining the economy , all trying to undercut the next guy, well all that undercutting has reduced the price so damned much!
This again comes back to personal and fleet progression. The only reason to buy Dilithium is because you want it right now; if you are willing to wait, you can grind it, even if just by doffing your way to a couple thousand a day, which takes minutes. If you want it NOW, the only effective strategy is to undercut. Therefore, undercutting is inevitable.

The only exception is people selling their stipend, and they're a drop in the bucket.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 245
# 34
01-10-2013, 11:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by syberghost View Post
Yes, but players have the desire to buy and sell in these patterns due to the decisions PWE makes, to whit: there are currently a tremendous number of things in player and fleet advancement that require Dilithium, and not many new things to spend Zen on. Yes, there's more Dil than ever; but the need for it has increased far beyond that.
I am going to have to say this. For PWE to say they don't set the prices is untrue as long as they determine both the amount of dill you need for game progression and the amount that can be harvested by time.

In fact, I am going to take this one step further and say that the decision to including STF and Romulan gear into the dill price structure with VA equipment and ships has increased the demand for dill, but not enough to offset the dill farmers supply- a PWE decision.
With the same number of farmers, PWE has increased the available dill supply to the point where it takes more Zen to purchase the same amount of dill. Add into this equation additional dill farmers, and I don't see how PWE can say they don't set the prices. Of course, PWE is in the business of selling Zen.

Unless they mean that they don't set the individual unit price per player to be able to sell their units vs the next player when the market is saturated. That would be an arugment for fifth graders. Obviously someone would sell their units at a price the market can support. With saturation from PWE, it would drop the price per unit to the floor. Hrmmm.... I wonder where all that dill came from?
Lulz.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,679
# 35
01-10-2013, 11:09 AM
By the way, those complaining about people who spend money instead of "putting in the time": I work 9-11 hours a day for the money I spend on Zen. I'm grinding just like you. I'm putting in the time; I'm just putting it in on different quests than the ones you're using.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 118
# 36
01-10-2013, 11:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by syberghost View Post
By the way, those complaining about people who spend money instead of "putting in the time": I work 9-11 hours a day for the money I spend on Zen. I'm grinding just like you. I'm putting in the time; I'm just putting it in on different quests than the ones you're using.
I dont think its so much complaining about people who use real money to advance the game as much as complaining about people complaining that they have to spend more real money than they used to.

That is what this is about, the starter of the topic is complaining cause he has to pay more real money for the same amount of dilithium that he used to get. Personally in this cause thats crying in the wind in my eyes cause I always thought for how much effort one has to put in to get large sums of dilithium that the dilithium to zen exchange rate should be more equal than lopsided like it has been.

I mean 180 dilithium for 1 zen. that means to buy $5 worth of zen via dilithium it would cost you 90,000 dilithium and with a 8,000 refine cap a day that would take you just over 11 days of constantly refining dilithium to get $5. I think 85 - 90 to 1 is a better all around value. Will take cost you 42,500 dilithium for $5 worth of zen which is reasonable and take you about 5 1/2 days to obtain that much at 8,000 refining limit. That is more reasonable than 11 days in my book.


But for someone to complain saying oh im having to spend more real world money to buy the same amount of dilithium im not going to give you my money anymore can be akin to blackmail and its all laughable considering that he doesnt have to spend his money on dilithium and hes complaining about the costs. I wasnt on here complaining bout the costs of dil to buy a zen point for the effort I put in to make it.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 497
# 37
01-10-2013, 11:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by syberghost View Post
By the way, those complaining about people who spend money instead of "putting in the time": I work 9-11 hours a day for the money I spend on Zen. I'm grinding just like you. I'm putting in the time; I'm just putting it in on different quests than the ones you're using.
Considering the amount I earn per hour at my job, vs the cash value of a hour's worth of dilithium grinding, I know which one I'd rather do. I just don't want dilithium badly enough to pay OR grind for it. I get small amounts here and there as I play. If it adds up eventually, super. If not, I don't waste a moment thinking about what I might be missing out on. That's what drives this market to either extreme, the basic human fear of missing something exciting.
I'll sell you some weapons from New Romulus. Never fired, only dropped once.
Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 307
# 38
01-10-2013, 11:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by syberghost View Post
By the way, those complaining about people who spend money instead of "putting in the time": I work 9-11 hours a day for the money I spend on Zen. I'm grinding just like you. I'm putting in the time; I'm just putting it in on different quests than the ones you're using.
That's not a solid argument, altho personally I don't feel one way or another regarding the issue itself.

Let's assume $10/h with a real job, 40h/week, with 10% disposable income =
800 Zen / 8h (taking the full work day to just fuel your STO) = 100Zen/h + other benefits.
Regardless of the "bad" dilithium exchange ratio.

Ingame you're capped at 8.000 dilithium, say 90 Zen, per character - for roughly 1.5h of work.
x 5 = 450 Zen in 8h = 56Zen/h + mental problems and other issues like unemployment/social neglect;
and this only given a (historically) good exchange ratio (from this, the inverse, perspective).

It's clear that (within certain parameters) RMT is more effective than spending time ingame.
You could say RMTers put in time elsewhere and do different quests, yes, but their quests are much better if they have a somewhat decent income.

Last edited by lolimpicard; 01-10-2013 at 11:34 AM.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,183
# 39
01-10-2013, 12:39 PM
people, you are adults, you play a game, which we all here LOVE.

we all buy Zen according to our wallet, or not, just being here with the community.


PLEASE, do as it suits you, buy a LTS, or don't ... buy Zen or grind Dill, but please do not ***** about it here in the forums afterwards..

it is all YOU doing it.. not Cryptic.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 300
# 40
01-10-2013, 12:39 PM
800 zen is 8$ not 80$ and btw u do need more then 1 and a half hour to cap dill so dill is still cheap so drop to 50 dill per zen or less is near future
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