Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 460
# 81
01-10-2013, 07:35 PM
I've bought 40 dollars with of Zen with a 15% bonus Zen. I bought the Dacoit and the Corsair, two more character slots, I haven't used yet, two extra ship slots by accident (I figure I'll use it in time anyway), two bridge officer slots so I could use the my science ensign on my Dacoit, and a couple of Doff packs with the left over zen and I still have 104 or 204 Zen left.

I've not spent zen on locknoxes, hate lotteries.

I don't buy Dilithium, I'm only a Captain so the Fleet Corsair is still far away so I just earn Dilithium and fleet marks and trade them in for Fleet Credits. Also finally got rid of all those trace particles and stuff for fleet credits. Traded EC for warp coils to trade for Fleet Credits as well. Its been just a few days and already I have over 46,200 fleet credits.

At this rate I'm thinking of buying the Corsair Retrofit so I only have to buy 1 Fleet Modual, plus its nearly as good as the Fleet Corsair, but with a different BO layout.

I don't bother with the Dilithium exchange so the rates don't matter to me.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,006
# 82
01-10-2013, 07:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordgyor View Post

At this rate I'm thinking of buying the Corsair Retrofit so I only have to buy 1 Fleet Modual, plus its nearly as good as the Fleet Corsair, but with a different BO layout.
The Corsair is a tier 4 ship, so it won't get you any discount on the Fleet Corsair. There's no way to get that ship with fewer than four FSMs.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 402
# 83
01-10-2013, 07:55 PM
Even more reason not to buy Z-Store crap. You'd think they'd have sense to make it a sliding scale, i.e. 4 FSM for Fleet T2 ships, 3 FSM for Fleet T3 ships, 2 FSM for Fleet T4 ships. It's only worth it now if you're going to fly it on more than 1 toon for the FSM savings.

Ah well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jengoz View Post
Silly Rabbit, the Devs don't play the game. That's why they have no idea about the problems.

Last edited by sekritagent; 01-10-2013 at 08:01 PM.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,798
# 84
01-10-2013, 11:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sirsri View Post
This statement is false. You (cryptic) set the supply and create demand for it, and you can (secretly or overtly) engage in active monetary policy by pumping zen or dil into the system, or taking them out, including fixing the trivial investigate officer reports daily which seriously impacted the market.

The exchange is player driven within the confines of the monetary (i.e. game design) regime set by Cryptic and adjusted as you see fit. If you increased (or decreased) dil costs for fleet projects or items by a factor of 2 without changing the rate of earning dil that would effect the dil-zen market. So '100% player driven' is not true, players don't control the dil prices for the dilithium sinks in the game, nor do they control the number of zen items in the store, their price, or desirability etc.


I'm not saying the exchange is bad. To claim it is 100% player driven is false however.
Not sure how long you have been playing but I have seen the ups and downs of this game in the last 2 years and such being said you can tell its a player driver driven economy. PWE and Cryptic have no need to do what you say because if you understand economics of the system its extemely hard for people who use bots to even get anywhere first off. Then if you look at the spectrum of the pricing if its high or low it does not matter because the companies in question make the returns they designed.

To explain this in detail on how it works is and you will see this to be true even if you don't want to you will know that is true. When the dilithium exchange is at its lowest which it is right now which I would gauge from 25 to 150 dilithium per zen the company will push out dilithium requirements because those who play but are not dilithium grinders will pay money to get their dilithium. In the cases where its 160-500ish dilithium per zen that is when you will see more and more things like ships coming out for the c-store and items that will cost zen because it will take more to grind out and that point people who are in the dilithium only category will be able to get it cheaper but yet the buying of zen is up on either side of the spectrum.

In conclusion the player driven economy sets the bar on how they deliver content they do not need to do any type of rigging to the system to change it because they make money no matter where its at all they do with it is use different marketing tactics within the game itself to switch around when it goes higher or goes low like it is now.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,416
# 85
01-11-2013, 12:33 AM
This thread makes me want to go buy Zen.
Seriously.

Last edited by hippiejon; 01-11-2013 at 12:37 AM.
Ensign
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 18
# 86
01-11-2013, 01:50 AM
i think 2 things need to happen for dilith to be worth more

1...more accual things to buy for example. as nice as lockboxes are .... I see them as a trap more than anything so if i buy keys its to trade for box items i want not to open boxes. I will pay for bundles and cool pets, probibly not ships since i seem to go through ships in like 5 minutes before needing a new level of ship and most the cstore ships look meh, More account wide features, i often dont spend for 1 character things.

add more formal outfit options or combine formal and off duty, swim suits for risa, sell extra costume slots for bridge officers, maybe an offduty slot, more KDF outfits, more hair options, tails for alien chars who dont want to be catfolk.... wings & antennae for insectoid aliens. sell the ability for you to have your 1st officer as a noncombat pet.

maybe let us buy the right to promote a doff we really like... not trade in accually promote..or even alter. I don't know about you but after a while i come up with little stories for my doffs, like R'Mut the catfolk advisor, Reinbo the comm officer(got to love some of the names), that botinist that keeps filling in for the antimatter specialist... let us raise thier rarity and give them a trait.

2... Doff missions i love them to bits but they earn to much exp and dilithium, why pay for something i can earn while not even logged in. Doff missions i can see as earning EC and Doff exp, maybe even bridge officer expertise since you often swap out bridge officers and thier skills, anything more and its kinda makes sto into STOVille....
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 23
# 87 Not seeing the point
01-11-2013, 04:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rehpic View Post
The currency exchange is anonymous and only executes trades at the best price. So if you are buying, you buy at the cheapest price available. If you are selling, you sell at the highest price available. This is to prevent exploits such as gold farmers using the system to transfer Dilithium to their customers.
I wasn't contesting the reason for wich you control or not the market. If you want reasons, ofcourse you can find tons of them, good or bad, depends on wich side of the argument you are. The fact is this is a controlled market, not a free one, and atm this is in the best interest of PWE and F2P players. Again, this is a good or bad thing depending on what kind of player you are ( F2P or P2P).
Make it like Exchange works now, and you might have a free market.
Allways in a MMO ppl will find a way to exploit something.
But to state that the dil market is a free market not under control by Cryptic this is a lie. By the simple fact that someone else than the buyer or seller can decide wich offers are shown, this is control.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,502
# 88
01-11-2013, 06:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zachverant View Post
I am a LTS member and have NOT spent any RL money in the Z store since November 2012. I usually buy between 5000-10000 Zen each month.

The Dilth rate was at 88/1 yesterday, last time I bought dilth it was at 151/1. I will NOT spend anymore RL $$$ in the Z store untill the Dilth Econ gets fixed. This also means I will NOT be buying any more Keys for lockboxes either.

I am not alone, the other LTS members that I know have either curbed their spending or are NOT buying any Zen.

The dilth grind is long and sux...but my RL entertainment $$$ are better spent on "other" entertainment venues that DO NOT try to suck my pocketbook...dry.

Outside of the Dilth Econ being ran by greedy over the top business execs...I think the Devs are doing a...Wonderful Job.

Qa'pla

i don't get it?
are you actually mad that Zen prices are falling?

imho the C-Store is WAY to expensive for the usual player (i am not talking about MMO addicts that have no awareness of their spendings, i am talking about people that are used to a full Mass Effect DLC or a 10 pack of Forza Cars for the price of half a STO Starship these days.)

If you ask me the Dilithium Exchange can fall down to 1:25
so that all Players can profit from the cheap prices.

dilithium i can easily get for playing, i have patience, i do not need to get every shiny item right now and the Fleetbase is moving along just fine without me spending $ for Dil.

For the record i also have a LTS and have not spend any $ on STO since the Winter Event 2011, thx to the Dilithium Exchange.
AND i now have pretty much everything unlocked in the C-Store, all that i have left to buy are a hand full of ships (really it is like 6 or 7, and i do not want those) and of course Master Keys, DOff Packs and Fleet Ship Modules because there is unlimited need for those.

I am the dude that has been SELLING dilithium over the last year every day.
I am the dude that wanted your Zen!
I am DONE with the C-Store, i do not need your Zen anymore, now i will keep my Dilithium, and therefore the Dil Exchange will fall that much faster every day now.

I have effectively stopped grinding Dil until something pops up in the C-Store that i WANT (and that will not be the next LockBox, it will be the next Ship or Uniform or Bridge etc...)

I now just play for fun and keep the Dil i get.

It is all about demand and supply, i have no more demand for your Zen, so Zen gets that much cheaper.
Demand for Dil rises, thx to all kind of Sinks, therefore Dil gets more valuable.

If you are the Pay 2 Win minded player and want to spend $ for your Dil so you dont have to play, or get ahead faster... and it is now becoming too expensive for you.

Sorry then i do not feel bad for you ;P

Get in the game and start PLAYING like it is supposed to be!

I'm done grinding your Dil for you! (at least for now)
Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 307
# 89
01-11-2013, 07:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ciprianp1 View Post
I wasn't contesting the reason for wich you control or not the market. If you want reasons, ofcourse you can find tons of them, good or bad, depends on wich side of the argument you are. The fact is this is a controlled market, not a free one, and atm this is in the best interest of PWE and F2P players. Again, this is a good or bad thing depending on what kind of player you are ( F2P or P2P).
Make it like Exchange works now, and you might have a free market.
Allways in a MMO ppl will find a way to exploit something.
But to state that the dil market is a free market not under control by Cryptic this is a lie. By the simple fact that someone else than the buyer or seller can decide wich offers are shown, this is control.
The Dilithium Exchange allows you to anonymously trade dilithium and zen at the best ratio available. Nothing more, nothing less.
That's not a control mechanism but the limit of its scope of functionality.

As a Dev has stated: The reason it works the way it does is to prevent abuse of the system: Like gold-farmers transferring dilithium/zen.
The only thing you're allowed to is anonymously trade it at the best ratio available.
That's the end of it.

Within the boundaries of its functionality the market is free. Cryptic does not do trading there.
I don't say this because I blindly believe Cryptic; I say it because there's no advantage to Cryptic in doing so.

He's dead, Jim.
Community Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,659
# 90
01-11-2013, 07:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lolimpicard View Post
Within the boundaries of its functionality the market is free. Cryptic does not do trading there.
I don't say this because I blindly believe Cryptic; I say it because there's no advantage to Cryptic in doing so.
I fully agree that Cryptic doesn't manipulate the market directly by injecting trades into it. However, they do control it quite a bit, because they control the scarcity and value of Dilithium for other purposes, which directly affects the supply of Dilithium for trade. They also control the value of Zen for other purposes. They also have some control over the scarcity of Zen, but they have never done anything that would reduce this, such as putting a cap on how much you can buy or transfer to STO, and they're not likely to ever do so.

If Dilithium is needed for character progression in an area in which a substantial portion of the playerbase have not finished progressing, that makes it more valuable. With no proportional increase in supply, that makes it scarce for Zen trading. That's a decision Cryptic made; they increased both the amount of Dil needed for character progression and the sources of getting more, but they increase the former far more than the latter.

I'm not saying Cryptic did anything wrong; expensive Dil benefits Cryptic more than cheap Dil, and the fact that people are still buying so much of it means Cryptic hasn't annoyed the paying customers into not paying. But it's disingenuous to say that Cryptic has no control over the market. They have tremendous control over it, they just don't DIRECTLY do so by injecting trades.
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