Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 432
I've been playing about a year if I have my dates right, and been playing with a Atrox most of that. If I were go give my list of complaints in separate thread there would be many; So:

1) Crew: What crew? A carrier doesn't have a able crew after the first two minuets. Even with a emergency force field generator and bio-monitor after the first death or the first minuet or two you'll never see them again for the entire length of the engagement. A percent of 3,000 get's chip away at too fast to get back on their feat while a crew of 200 will be around with at least 100 as long as the ship is.

One balance point flat on it's face.

Suggested fix: A single carrier only EFF/BO console or passive ability that can keep up with crews over 1000.

2) Flying the brick: It flies? The Vo'Quv (being a free teir 4 'parody' ) of the 20-25$ Atrox, and the Atrox can not actually engage a target at better then half speed. Nor do their turn rates at any point exceed 8/degree per second without evasive maneuvers or a sub-space jumper.

Thematically, that's fine. Practically?

Despite being able to theoretically 'use' dual or heavy dual cannons it can't. Any target paying attention can escape the firing arc with ease. Even another carrier!

Two balance points flat on it's face.

I'd touch on how a escort is actually able to use and gather a huge +defense bonus from it's speed, but that brings up another point. No carrier can ever control the battle field. A escort always decides when to start and end a fight. Making them practically unbeatable. The best a carrier pilot can hope for is a draw or not to die. That, or to get lucky a escort make a mistake so they can't just run away.

Three balance points flat on it's face.

Whats more for only have 20-30% more health then a escort, it can not shake one using the same on it. Meaning it has a escort terminally affixed to it's rear shield facing, using six+ cannons(including the turrets there) to a carrier's three rear weapons.

Four balance points flat on it's face.

What about fighters? Even if a gravity well, tycon's rift, shock wave, torpedo volley, or scatter volley from any player on the field hasn't destroyed them? Because of Two and Three, it's easier to just ignore fighters, kill the host carrier, and be done with the whole lot. If you can keep four to twelve effectively fighting.

Five balance points flat on it's face.

Suggested fix: Give carriers 200-400K hull to scale how long it takes a escort to kill it to how long it will take a carrier to kill a escort.

3) What about all those shiny science and engineering abilities: Right ... pull the other leg. Even if other threads hadn't covered how badly they're laughably outstripped by simply blowing something up faster with tactical abilities?

That argument is basically I should poor everything I've got into tanking to save my own hide long enough to make a dent. Not that I should actually use those bridge officer slots for what they're meant to be used for. For say healing the team, or disabling a target.

Six balance points flat on it's face.

Suggested fix: Carrier (or cruiser) only heavy beam arrays or carrier only super heavy beam arrays.

4) Comparison to the Kar'Fi: Not only does the Kar'Fi(which I also own) cost 500Zen less, it has the turn rate to use cannon, a console, and _two_ hanger types specific to it.

Because it does far more damage, better maneuverability (further it's ability to do damage, and escape), it also has it's own dedicated console that's ... in short awesome for a carrier. If it does get boxed it by faster more heavily armed ships, it has a unbeatable battle cloak that it can not only fire from, but can't be targeted.

What's more, it's the only carrier one of two I can think of that doesn't have a fleet refit. Both the armitage (another escort hybrid), and the free Vo'Quv (The ship the Atrox was meant to parody) has a fleet refit.

Do I really need do enumerate that one?

Suggested fix: Give the Atrox it's own console that at the very least gives it the same stealth bonus as the stalkers. Give the Atrox it's own frigates. At the least a third hanger slot.

Last edited by resoundingenvoy; 01-11-2013 at 12:32 PM.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 89
# 2
01-11-2013, 12:54 PM
The problem with Fed carriers is, there is no free one, so there is a rather glaring lack of pet options that the klinks have since they have one that is a staple of their fleet. I honestly do not mind this though as the T5 scorps seem to pick up the slack a bit in that department.

Things I would like to see:

1) carriers get Tractor Beam 1 for free. It makes sense...

2) Stop being a floating Graveyard. Carriers are punished for having higher crew counts, one torp to it and more than a quarter to half your crew is in sick bay or dead. Fix this.

3) pet AI..I swear my fighters are manned by Pakleds.. When asking about fed fighters i was told to go with peregrins. Why? because when they die the warp core breach can damage enemies..really? wow, fed tactics have changed a bit over the years..

4) either slightly less mass or slightly better turn, it shouldent turn on a dime but I should be able to use my sub nuke, one of my main sci abilities..
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 956
# 3
01-11-2013, 01:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by resoundingenvoy View Post

A) Crew, What crew?
B) Flying the brick, It flies? The Vo'Quv (being a free teir 4 'parody' ) of the 20-25$ Atrox,
C)Suggested fix: Give carriers 200-400K hull to scale how long it takes a escort to kill it to how long it will take a carrier to kill a escort.
D) What about all those shiny science and engineering abilities, Right ... pull the other leg. Even if other threads hadn't covered how badly they're laughably outstripped by simply blowing something up faster with tactical abilities?
E) Comparison to the Kar'Fi: it has the turn rate to use cannon, a console, and _two_ hanger types specific to it.
F) What's more, it's the only carrier one of two I can think of that doesn't have a fleet refit. Both the armitage (another escort hybrid),
G) Suggested fix: Give the Atrox it's own console that at the very least gives it the same stealth bonus as the stalkers. Give the Atrox it's own frigates. At the least a third hanger slot.
A) I agree, the crew death is a bit silly
B) Voquv came first, therefore it isnt a free 'parody' its the original
C)Heck no. Carriers can be tanky if you build them right. Either you are doing something wrong, not using hangers to your advatanage e.g. shield repairs, or you're fighting a more experianced escort
D)There's a lot to be said about the bedeviling builds a science ship can mix up
E) Higher turn rate, cannons and different boff layout karfi loses surviability for dps. console is good but still a sacrifice to other consoles. As for the 2 unique hanger pets that was apparently a dev decision, cant speak from experiance so cant really comment on that
F) You've pointed out the Cat carrier is bad, why would you want a fleet version of a BAD ship? furthermore the armitage refit or even the vesta sounds like it would suit you better, you can have the cannons and turn rate your desperate for, and with the vesta you even can use science abilities that you seem to like
G) From what i've seen of stalker fighters their stealth bonus is fairly fail, so the console probably wouldnt be that good either :p, Have to go with a personal no to atrox friagtes, and please tell me you are joking about a 3rd hanger



Quote:
Originally Posted by paneth48 View Post
A) The problem with Fed carriers is, there is no free one, so there is a rather glaring lack of pet options

B) carriers get Tractor Beam 1 for free. It makes sense...
C) Stop being a floating Graveyard.
D) pet AI
E) either slightly less mass or slightly better turn, it shouldent turn on a dime but I should be able to use my sub nuke, one of my main sci abilities..
A) i dont understand how lacking a free one = less pet choice? Please explain
B) every ship in the game should get a free tractor beam, but that would render tractor beam boff skill usless.. so i disagree there :p
C) Agreed, some kind of resistance woudl be nice, or actually on death for crew to be at max.. i mean if we did magically return to perfect health on respawn.. shouldnt our crew
D) While it DID improve, it still can be a bit cluncky, e.g. on KASE targeting a transformer translates to 'attack what you want on the opposite side of the map!' to my fighters..
E) If you want turn rate for 90degree angle abilities dont use a carrier ^^
Your Heavy Graviton Beam deals 26470 (10583) Kinetic Damage(Critical) to Assimilated Carrier.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 432
# 4
01-11-2013, 01:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by elandarksky View Post
A) I agree, the crew death is a bit silly
B) Voquv came first, therefore it isnt a free 'parody' its the original



Quote:
C)Heck no. Carriers can be tanky if you build them right. Either you are doing something wrong, not using hangers to your advatanage e.g. shield repairs, or you're fighting a more experianced escort
D)There's a lot to be said about the bedeviling builds a science ship can mix up
E) Higher turn rate, cannons and different boff layout karfi loses surviability for dps. console is good but still a sacrifice to other consoles. As for the 2 unique hanger pets that was apparently a dev decision, cant speak from experiance so cant really comment on that ...

...E) If you want turn rate for 90degree angle abilities dont use a carrier ^^
My gripe there is a little twisty. I live longer in my Kar'Fi by simple virtue of it's console, and nothing lives long enough that I need the difference in health. It can actually use the cannons the Atrox can not. The Kar'Fi can actually escape a losing fight.

I actually usually do live the longest in my team in a Atrox. Pound for pound though, even counting the down time of a re spawn, a equally built escort will accomplish more. By simple virtue of I can't use what I do have, and what I can use doesn't match.

Edit: I should qualify that. I don't mean doesn't match DPS, I mean isn't even a inverse match. Try running a Klingon defense mission in a Vo'Quv vs. Whatever a Teir 4 escort is. I'm willing to grantee you while your blow up more in the escort? You'll still finish faster even counting the down time.

It should be slow and steady vs. fast and violent, but it's no where near that idiom.

Quote:
F) You've pointed out the Cat carrier is bad, why would you want a fleet version of a BAD ship? furthermore the armitage refit or even the vesta sounds like it would suit you better, you can have the cannons and turn rate your desperate for, and with the vesta you even can use science abilities that you seem to like
G) From what i've seen of stalker fighters their stealth bonus is fairly fail, so the console probably wouldnt be that good either :p, Have to go with a personal no to atrox friagtes, and please tell me you are joking about a 3rd hanger
The third hanger and stealth by is me begging for table scraps. Not that I want it. Again, a bit of twisty reasoning.

Mask energy signature on a Atrox is awesome because everything else is so screwed up. It gives me a chance to look things over, and not be the first big blue shiny target.

It lets me show up after the more heavily armed have already picked their targets so they aren't flanking me out of the gate. It's a misdirection to cover the fact I can't shake them. I don't have a need to shake them if they aren't targeting me.

Quote:
A) i dont understand how lacking a free one = less pet choice? Please explain
B) every ship in the game should get a free tractor beam, but that would render tractor beam boff skill usless.. so i disagree there :p

Did I cross points there? I was just complaining the Kar'Fi, being the cheaper ship, has more options then the ship I paid more for.

Last edited by resoundingenvoy; 01-11-2013 at 01:50 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 956
# 5
01-11-2013, 01:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by resoundingenvoy View Post
My gripe there is a little twisty.

The third hanger and stealth by is me begging for table scraps. Not that I want it. Again, a bit of twisty reasoning.

Mask energy signature on a Atrox is awesome because everything else is so screwed up. It gives me a chance to look things over, and not be the first big blue shiny target.

It lets me show up after the more heavily armed have already picked their targets so they aren't flanking me out of the gate. It's a misdirection to cover the fact I can't shake them. I don't have a need to shake them if they aren't targeting me.
Say what you mean man!! O_O :p, twisty can come out completely wrong when read through the eyes of someone like me in the forums ^^
(edit) I mean i have found someone who GENUINELY wanted battle cloaking defiants popping out of the atrox.. :|

I suppose the extra stealth could have its merits, but i would think going for the KHG space set would appease that right off the bat :p


(also the second quote/set of points was in response to paneth48 ^^)
Your Heavy Graviton Beam deals 26470 (10583) Kinetic Damage(Critical) to Assimilated Carrier.
Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 307
# 6
01-11-2013, 01:59 PM
There's only one carrier in this game that's not terrible: It's the Kar'Fi.
The 1-hanger hybrids also work, but they're not really carriers.

Should this be improved?
Probably.
But improving the Atrox makes no sense without improving the Voquv aswell. They're both pretty bad.

He's dead, Jim.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 432
# 7
01-11-2013, 02:21 PM
I should have just summed up the OP in "I live longer in my Kar'Fi by simple virtue of it's console, and nothing lives long enough that I need the difference in health." No problems with buffing the Vo'Quv as well above I actually paid for the Atrox's problems.

That's my challenge to the reader and dev team:

Because they're both 'free'? Make a Klingon, Get a Vo'Quv. Then get any other 'free' teir 4 ship. Gear them in like or at least near like things. Pick a target like a defense mission. See how much harder it is in the Vo'Quv. Not that it's 'hard', but I doubt it will take long for the gap to show up.

I'd say pair off the Atrox and Kar'Fi (both being paid for ships), but that's more zen then it takes to get a entire ship-pack.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 253
# 8
01-12-2013, 02:17 AM
I agree fully on the issue with the crew, all carriers need some crew bracing that is a part of the ship.

The fighter AI is so-so, and all fighters need to move faster! They just sit there when a ship explodes sometimes though, wtf?

The Atrox does need something very unique to it, being a big science ship, a special console of some kind. What other suggestions can we get on it? Something that...buffs the fighters? Buffs the shields? Maybe the movement and defense stats?
VA Makbure
The 47th Defense Division Special Ops
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 891
# 9
01-12-2013, 06:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lolimpicard View Post
There's only one carrier in this game that's not terrible: It's the Kar'Fi.
The 1-hanger hybrids also work, but they're not really carriers.

Should this be improved?
Probably.
But improving the Atrox makes no sense without improving the Voquv aswell. They're both pretty bad.
The Recluse is an absolute monster if you know how to fit it.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,714
# 10
01-12-2013, 09:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lolimpicard View Post
There's only one carrier in this game that's not terrible: It's the Kar'Fi.
The 1-hanger hybrids also work, but they're not really carriers.

Should this be improved?
Probably.
But improving the Atrox makes no sense without improving the Voquv aswell. They're both pretty bad.
At least the Vo'Quv is free AND can use frigates as well as Orion Marauders (contraband = chaching!!)

Edit: while its pretty hard to get, the Recluse does seem pretty good as well.
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