Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,172
# 31
01-13-2013, 08:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by warpangel View Post
Except the Gorn are in Starfleet. You can get Gorn bridge officers and duty officers. And Starfleet isn't racist enough to say those Gorn can never be captain of a ship.
BOs only as an exchange officer and DOFFs through defection.
Besides based on that logic every species would be available to everyone.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 542
# 32
01-13-2013, 09:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajstoner View Post
And here we get the the crux of your "argument." You are bitter there isn't more KDF stuff. I agree with you there but reflexivie bitterness and an "I'm not getting a fair deal so screw everyone else" attitude is profoundly unhelpful--both to your own cause or the people you share this community with.
Not bitter, it just really irritates me when people say "I want that", but instead of getting it in the "correct" way want the game's rules (not to mention the actual canonical ST universe) to be changed.

KDF had cloaks, Feds complained, Feds got access to cloakable vessels.

KDF had carriers, Feds complained, Feds got not just a normal carrier, they also got an ESCORT with hangars.

KDF had good consoles, Feds complained, Feds got access to those consoles via the console swap lockbox items. Granted, the KDF also got a couple of consoles, but the difference is, we didn't have to keep QQing until they were given to us.

KDF had unique STF sets, Feds complained, Feds got access to Adapted sets (and they're even complaining about that, because of shared grenade cooldowns on the ground set/grenade satchel kit).

KDF were the only faction with non-lockbox cruisers that could mount DC/DHCs, Feds complained, Breen Chel Grett arrives.

And now you want our species? Suppose you get the Gorn character, what then? People wanting Orions because "we've got Gorn, so why not?", how about Letheans and Nausicaans, want those too?
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 522
# 33
01-13-2013, 09:15 AM
Regarding the "Gorn are not slaves of the Empire" argument: While not all Gorn in the Empire would consider themselves slaves, more than a few would. Ever put on a uniform and go walking around another man's country with a gun, telling them what's what? I have. I assure you people resent it, and that's just a transient occupation. A proper colonization, like what the Gorn have suffered at the hands of the Empire, is a whole other matter and a far more explosive one. Literally so. Northern Ireland anyone? India? Palistine?

We know from our one real in-show meeting with the Gorn (TOS; Arena) that the Gorn are:

a) As advanced as the Federation technologically at that time and the Federation was clearly out ahead of the Empire in this area. Granted much has changed over the years going by our timeline. Spock was shocked to the point of showing it on his face by the Gorn?s technical prowess when they remotely turned his tricorder into a bomb and we also saw them using hand-phasers when they disintegrated the party's redshirt; something only Federation side arms were capable of in TOS. In other words, though they may not have been a huge faction (though they may have it is left in the air but since it wasn?t followed up we can assume they were fairly small) they were clearly an advanced one.

Kirk also orders the Enterprise to follow the Gorn ship at a distance so that enemy sensors couldn't determine any solid facts about her--presumably because he had doubts the Enterprise was a match for them and intended to use some of his patented trickery to get the upper hand once he saw where they were heading.

b) We know that the Gorn were fanatically protective of their territory by the fact that they annihilated an alien colony the moment they detected it in their space then rushed home to get reinforcements once it was dispatched. I have a hard time picturing such creatures just rolling over for the Klingons and accepting them as their natural masters.

c) We know from all the ST shows that Klingon culture is extremely racist and has nothing but contempt for its conquered peoples. The game has lead the KDF in a new, more inclusive and multi-cultural direction (likely as a result of their ties to the Federation and to counter the Federation?s ability to grow and gain willing member races as a result of such a policy) but this policy is, at best, a generation old. How comfortable was the deep American south a mere generation after Jim Crow laws were officially taken off the books? Yes, the Gorn have a representative on the high council: Jews have representatives in the Iranian parliament--doesn-t mean its one big party for them over there.

Regarding KDF Resentment: The only real opposition I am seeing here is from dedicated KDF players who are simply voicing a generic resentment that they lack content on their side: nothing more. I agree with this sentiment but the fact is, comparatively speaking, hardly anyone plays KDF. I've been playing STO myself for almost 2 years and I'm just starting to myself.

THIS IS NOT A VALID LINE OF ARGUMENT. Sorry, it isn't. I agree the KDF side needs a lot of attention, whole-heartedly, but just being bitter and going "No, screw the 'Fed fanboys'!" isn?t going to do any good there.

There is a valid, story-related reason that some Gorn would (and apparently do) serve in Starfleet. I have about a dozen different Gorn doffs in both my diplomatic and security sections and I cannot even recall doing the defection mission. The precedent, as well as all requisite justifications, is already in-game. Sorry, it is so.

Regarding Gorn Speaking: As far as Gorn and speech: It is established in ST they DO speak; in both cases through translators. It is possible that their vocal chords cannot produce the same sounds as many mammals, and thus they might not be able to reproduce them, though they could certainly learn to understand them. Regardless, getting bent about languages in ST is just plain silly; every alien in the galaxy (even ones in the Delta Quadrant who had never heard of Earth or Humans) speak perfect English. The "Universal Translator" hand-wave is in full effect so this is a non-issue.

Last edited by ajstoner; 01-13-2013 at 09:37 AM.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,701
# 34
01-13-2013, 09:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by misterde3 View Post
BOs only as an exchange officer and DOFFs through defection.
Besides based on that logic every species would be available to everyone.
What does it matter how you got the officer? They're Starfleet officers now. They have a Starfleet rank. Can you seriously say the Federation would refuse to promote them above commander based on race?

And yes, every species should be available to everyone. You can make 99% of all Trek species as a custom Alien already anyway.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 522
# 35
01-13-2013, 09:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dma1986 View Post
Not bitter, it just really irritates me when people say "I want that", but instead of getting it in the "correct" way want the game's rules (not to mention the actual canonical ST universe) to be changed.
I am glad you are here to tell me what is and isn't acceptable behavior. Thank you so much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dma1986 View Post
KDF had cloaks, Feds complained, Feds got access to cloakable vessels.
Actually the Federation did have cloaking technology. According to TNG better than the Romulans. They simply signed a treaty with the Romulans not to persue the technology but by the time of DS9 were doing it anyway. The defiant had a cloaking device. According to "All good things" the Enterprise had one as well 20 years later. Since Romulas is gone it is safe to assume that treaty is gone. Cloaking technology is old hack for everyone at this stage of the game. Non-point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dma1986 View Post
KDF had carriers, Feds complained, Feds got not just a normal carrier, they also got an ESCORT with hangars.
Again, established already by DS9 that the Federation was using fighters in combat. There is MORE cannon supporting a fed carrier than a Klingon one, if you really want to go there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dma1986 View Post
KDF had good consoles, Feds complained, Feds got access to those consoles via the console swap lockbox items. Granted, the KDF also got a couple of consoles, but the difference is, we didn't have to keep QQing until they were given to us.
I am not even sure what the point of this "sentence" is so I will let it go. You are mad that both sides got something: check, whatever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dma1986 View Post
KDF had unique STF sets, Feds complained, Feds got access to Adapted sets (and they're even complaining about that, because of shared grenade cooldowns on the ground set/grenade satchel kit).
Both sides again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dma1986 View Post
KDF were the only faction with non-lockbox cruisers that could mount DC/DHCs, Feds complained, Breen Chel Grett arrives.
A ship 3 or 4 people will use in a month. This is absurd, you are just reaching for anything at this point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dma1986 View Post
And now you want our species? Suppose you get the Gorn character, what then? People wanting Orions because "we've got Gorn, so why not?", how about Letheans and Nausicaans, want those too?
Couldn't care less about those myself but sure, why not. I would also be happy with humans and Vulcans in the KDF to be honest. The Alpha Quadrent community is old and mixed enough now I could see any member of any species ending up serving with any faction under such circumstances.

Also, it is more than worth noting, about 90% of the people in the game are playing the Fed side. the end. I think the KDF SHOULD get more attention, this ratio would likely close a bit if they do, but come now...

Also, let me leave you with a simple question: How will your experience of the game be deminished if I'm using a Gorn captain on the Fed side? Really, exactly WHAT will happen to ruin your time here?

Last edited by ajstoner; 01-13-2013 at 09:33 AM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,172
# 36
01-13-2013, 09:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by warpangel View Post
What does it matter how you got the officer? They're Starfleet officers now. They have a Starfleet rank. Can you seriously say the Federation would refuse to promote them above commander based on race?
No, because defectors are untrustworthy.
Never trust a traitor, even one you created yourself.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 184
# 37
01-13-2013, 09:50 AM
If the Federation gets Gorn, it's only fair that the KDF get access to Fed species too. After all, under your logic, what's to stop a human who agrees that the Undine infiltrators need to be hunted down at all costs from defecting to the Klingon side? DS9 proved in several episodes that some Klingons can see other species as allies and comrades.

Last edited by tatyanasergei; 01-13-2013 at 10:09 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 514
# 38
01-13-2013, 10:09 AM
Well, I still think there should be KDF Humans.
Captain
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,922
# 39
01-13-2013, 10:19 AM
I'm not fond of the idea to be honest, but I wouldn't lead a revolt if such a feature was implemented.

Aesthetically, and characteristically, I feel that the Gorn are more naturally suited to the KDF. I'm just not sure they'd be comfortable serving Starfleet. Yes I am aware that you can have defector doffs, I have a few of them myself on my Fed character, but these equate to little more than pictures on trading cards. They aren't really NPC or player characters, they have no personality or relevance.

I wouldn't do this myself for the above reason, but I'm OK with other players wanting to do it. What would be cool is if the defected races had a different tutorial mission that shows why they defected in the first place, a little background detail would make the idea more believable.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,406
# 40
01-13-2013, 10:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tatyanasergei View Post
If the Federation gets Gorn, it's only fair that the KDF get access to Fed species too. After all, under your logic, what's to stop a human who agrees that the Undine infiltrators need to be hunted down at all costs from defecting to the Klingon side? DS9 proved in several episodes that some Klingons can see other species as allies and comrades.
The problem with this line of thought is that 99% of the Fed Players, aren't going to complain if you do get them.
DaveyNY - STO Forum Minion since February - 2009
................Star Trek Fan since Thursday Sept. 8th, 1966
There are No Longer any STO Veterans... We're Just Minions who have Played the Game for the last 5.0 years.

Last edited by daveyny; 01-13-2013 at 10:38 AM.
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